Universal Basic Income

Author: secularmerlin

Posts

Total: 314
#211
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
The only point you're missing is that self-driving-vehicles is just ONE EXAMPLE of the massive shift in automation.
Well sure, but if we reach the point where there are literally no jobs left because of AI whatsoever except for a few million software engineers here and there then that gives us the ability to go post-scarcity anyway so from an economic point of view employment is no longer required. You can argue that is a bad thing from a philosophical perspective and many have, but the point is that economically there is no problem. The transition to that point (assuming that point is even in our future) is the delicate part, but taken in gradual steps and given policies to ease the process, possibly including the implementation of a UBI, it is easily doable.
#212
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Well sure, but if we reach the point where there are literally no jobs left because of AI whatsoever except for a few million software engineers here and there then that gives us the ability to go post-scarcity anyway so from an economic point of view employment is no longer required. You can argue that is a bad thing from a philosophical perspective and many have, but the point is that economically there is no problem. The transition to that point (assuming that point is even in our future) is the delicate part, but taken in gradual steps and given policies to ease the process, possibly including the implementation of a UBI, it is easily doable.
Software engineers are going to be one of the first categories to become obsolete.

Do you really think the corporations are going to want to keep people alive if they DON'T NEED WORKERS?

Have you ever played the game "musical chairs"?
#213
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL

ARTISTS AND DESIGNERS ARE OBSOLETE
Watching the video.... no, no they certainly aren't - first off - the framing of each picture is noticeably plain - it doesn't have the capabilities of intensive stylization, nor does it have any amount of coordination in unique anatomy - furthermore - who do you think programmed it? Hm? There are perhaps one or two things in there I would call, "good" and only hesitantly, people who design characters? Completely fine! People who make amount of intensive backgrounds? Also fine! It is very clear that you don't know what you're talking about here bud.
#214
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS AND WEB DESIGNERS ARE OBSOLETE
And I suppose Wix does the same thing?
#215
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
It is very clear that you don't know what you're talking about here bud.
#216
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
So do you have any actual rebuttals? Because if I had only said that, then fine - spite and all that - but I brought up several points -do you have a defence of your claim? You have spite and nothing to actually back it up - if Fauxlaw or Undefeatable were to have spite fine, even though I disagree with both on a number of issues, at least they substantiate their claims with more than a youtube video
#217
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
Your "objections" are peripheral red-herrings.

Your "objections" are regarding scale and scope.

My point is that GPT3 is just the beginning.

My point is that GPT3 is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Executives and directors simply use creatives (artists, writers, programmers, engineers) like tools.

Give me 3 proposals for a new movie that will appeal to 18 to 24 year olds that is super advertiser friendly.

Combine the current top 3 pop songs, the top 3 clothing styles and the top 3 most popular movies for that age group into a new franchise.

And then, when they review the "product" they will simply give simple feedback to REFINE that product.

That's great, but make it sexier and with more explosions.

GPT3 will be able to do this.

And at some point in the near future, people will be able to make their own movies and their own television shows, which will put the studios out of business.

Make me a website that maximizes advertising revenue.  20 websites created overnight.

Write me a program that integrates all financial and logistical functions of our company in order to maximize profitability.  Buys robots, fires all "non essential" humans.
#218
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Again. You can do the same thing with wix, in fact, even faster and more specific - furthermore - no - I am informing you that the field of graphic artists will not be heavily affect by such a thing - you are aware that creating textbook, boring images has almost nothing to do with graphic design? Please demonstrate that AI will gain the ability to create detailed stylistic work - you have failed to do such a thing. 

You are committing a slippery slope fallacy.
#219
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
A college kid’s fake, AI-generated blog fooled tens of thousands. This is how he made it.

“It was super easy actually,” he says, “which was the scary part.”

It was meant as a fun experiment. But then one of his posts reached the number-one spot on Hacker News.

Few people noticed that his blog was completely AI-generated. [**]
#220
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
With GPT-3, I built a layout generator where you just describe any layout you want, and it generates the JSX code for you. [**]
#221
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Neither of those things has to do with graphic design - furthermore, we've had AI capable of human speech that was indistinguishable from a human - the only remaining link is having it blog it down - are you now arguing that journalists are obsolete?
#222
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
Let’s reflect on the general impact of automation in UX Design, for example. The creative industry welcomed Zeplin.io back in 2015 to automatically spec our high-fidelity designs for us. Gone were the days when the width, height, colours, drop shadows needed to be manually defined — a platform did it all for us. It removed a layer of painstaking labour to our workflow that freed up our time to work on other creative pursuits.

In that same vein, the emergence of design systems serving as the overarching framework for consistent, usable experiences effectively did the same for us when Google’s Material Design was first introduced back in 2014. UI components with pre-written code snippets could be re-used, instead of creating from scratch — the design system standardized it all for us. It helped ensure our designs were consistent, usable and visually on brand.

So, as we now consider the automation of the craft itself, AI will expedite our workflow in a way where some of that grunt work will no longer bury us in tedium. This will allow for more creative exploration and imaginative thinking — freeing us to discover new design paradigms. In the case of AI, it’s a matter of harnessing it. Do as what AEC is doing at Autodesk and make it about solving the problem and leave the rest to the machines. [**]
#223
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
All of the programs, first of all, are not widely used by all animators/graphic designers - especially animators (who are in the same field) - furthermore, they all work on a stylized foundation - which you have not addressed. Yes, it has become easier to polish detail, but there has to be detail there in the first place. 

This is like me saying that because there are tables, desks are obsolete, or because there are boots, shoes are obsolete. 

More accurately, that because table legs are a thing, tables are obsolete, one supports the other - and your slippery slope fails to account for that
#224
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
that gives us the ability to go post-scarcity anyway so from an economic point of view employment is no longer required. 

#225
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Do you really think the corporations are going to want to keep people alive if they DON'T NEED WORKERS?
Topic's author
#226
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@3RU7AL
Do you really think the corporations are going to want to keep people alive if they DON'T NEED WORKERS?
Do you really think the corporations are going to want to keep people alive if they are unemployed and CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT?
#227
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@secularmerlin
@3RU7AL
@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm disappointed that my Automation debate just engaged will end up a null because Bringer was banned and will not meet the duration of the rounds. Would anyone be interested if I had the debate deleted and re-challenge it?
#228
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@fauxlaw
This is, primarily, a Marxist view of economy because Marxism primarily views inflation as a measure of the supply of money in the economy, and the relative demand for it.
What's your "counter hypothesis"?
#229
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Simple: a free-market economy that accounts for all contributors to business expenses from design to after-market customer care, and all in between, and the uses of gross revenue to pay for them, yielding the appropriate net profit, which is shared not only with all within a company by employment, but to investors in that company by stock dividends. Each receives according to the effort and skill they apply, and NOT just because a Marxist thinks he's entitled, but has no understanding of how the complete business model works. Run a lemonade stand. It's a good beginning. I had one.
#230
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@fauxlaw
Each receives according to the effort and skill they apply,
So,

RICH = GOOD

POOR = BAD
#231
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@fauxlaw
Simple: a free-market economy that accounts for all contributors to business expenses from design to after-market customer care, and all in between, and the uses of gross revenue to pay for them,
AND, what does any of this have to do with inflation?

Isn't cash functionally indistinguishable from any other commodity?
#232
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
both rich and poor can be lazy
both rich and poor can be ambitious
ambitious is good
lazy is bad
#233
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@fauxlaw
(EITHER)

both rich and poor can be lazy
(OR)

Each receives according to the effort and skill they apply,
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
#234
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
This is like me saying that because there are tables, desks are obsolete, or because there are boots, shoes are obsolete. 
What do tables represent in this creative metaphor?

What do desks represent in this creative metaphor?

What do boots represent in this creative metaphor?

What do shoes represent in this creative metaphor?
#235
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
More accurately, that because table legs are a thing, tables are obsolete, one supports the other - and your slippery slope fails to account for that
What do the table legs represent in this creative metaphor?

What do the table (tops?) represent in this creative metaphor?
#236
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I trust your deductive abilities to determine the identity of these objects in my oh-so-creative metaphors.
#237
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
Are you suggesting that a program (GPT3) that can effortlessly design unlimited variations on a chair that looks like an avocado, does not make a human who designs interesting and unique furniture obsolete?
#238
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm suggesting that a program that can make 8th grade landscapes is nothing compared to graphic artists - they lack the ability to do stylized pieces, as I have said multiple times
#239
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Theweakeredge
I'm suggesting that a program that can make 8th grade landscapes is nothing compared to graphic artists - they lack the ability to do stylized pieces, as I have said multiple times
Did you happen to notice the thirty, photo-realistic examples of different styles of chairs that intentionally resembled avocados?
#240
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Do you really think the corporations are going to want to keep people alive if they DON'T NEED WORKERS?
Uh... wut?