What are conservatives... for?

Author: Double_R

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#91
3RU7AL
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@Bringerofrain
If your theory that free markets create monopolies and that centrally planned economies eliminate them and foster competition we can look to history to see if that is true. 
That's not my hypothesis.
#92
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@3RU7AL
So does regulation create monopolies like history has shown or does the free market create evil monopolies? 
#93
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I seriously want to know because monopolies are bad and I want to pick an ideology that would eliminate the Amazon's of the world
#94
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@Bringerofrain
In the competitive market process, monopolies may sometimes emerge. They usually don’t last long, but if they do it’s not necessarily bad. By monopoly I mean a single seller of a product in a market. In a free market monopolies arise for two reasons: (a) a business drives competitors from the market by being more efficient or providing a better product, or (b) an entrepreneur is the first to offer a new product. In each case, if the monopoly persists it means that provider is more efficient or more innovative than its rivals. When government protects businesses from competition or subsidizes costs, efficiency and innovation suffer. But that, of course, is not the free market. [**]
Before the telegraph was invented, logistical barriers made large scale monopolies practically impossible.

However, small scale, regional monopolies were commonplace.

Anti-competitive practices, enforced by guilds and cartels maintained functional monopolies raising artificial barriers to competition.

Modern companies have exactly the same instincts as they've had from the beginning and technology has greatly extended their spheres of potential influence.

Government simply plays the role of mercenary in their pitched-battle to eliminate small and mid-sized businesses.

Microsoft is a good example of this.
#95
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@Double_R
I'm certainly not talking about everyone, my point is that these ideas are not as appealing as the party once swore they were and I think what we are seeing in our politics today is a reckoning on what to do about that.

I'm not entirely sure that social conservatism isn't viable politically, but I know that the fiscal libertarianism definitely isn't viable. Hispanics, the largest minority voting block, are quite religious and socially conservative overall. If the GOP would become a populist conservative workers party, I think they would keep all of the White vote they need while also gaining large portions of  the Hispanic vote.

We operate more or less on a pendulum. The widespread degeneracy we are seeing is very likely to have a strong reaction as people can no longer stomach what our culture has become. While Hollywood and the media do everything they can to make conservatism seem "uncool", you have to realize that the GOP has never been the young person's party. It is the party of families, evident as most married people with kids vote for them.

But I certainly agree that the GOP has cast aside most of its socially conservative principles in what Patrick Buchanan more or less describes as a neocon insurgency. Neocons are free traders, social liberals, and war hawks  that must be cast out of the party before it can once again become competitive nationally.
#96
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@3RU7AL
What point are you trying to make? 

Also

"Sorry amazon Don't cancel my prime membership"
#97
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@3RU7AL
Government simply plays the role of mercenary in their pitched-battle to eliminate small and mid-sized businesses.

Microsoft is a good example of this.
It's a horrible example of this. Microsoft never even thought about laundering money to the Federal government campaign coffers with lobbies until the Government Extorted them with Anti-Trust laws simply for having a better product and having a large market share at the time. Having the dominant market share is not a monopoly. A monopoly is when you have 100% of the market share.
Microsoft never forced OEM computer manufacturers to purchase their products. They simply underbid the competition by making their OS a lot less expensive than current alternatives at the time. Everything Microsoft did to dominate the market was 100 percent legal with no force.

It's the corporations that are forced to lobby to survive actually playing the role of mercenary lobbies for Washington DC power.

Too big to fail is only a direct result and the expected outcome of a crony government picking and choosing which monopolies are allowed to exist that they can extort the most out of. There are NO other reasons for it.



#98
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@Double_R
It’s for a while.
#99
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When I use the word monopoly for clarification I am using it liberally and just mean oligarchy .
#100
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@RationalMadman
Pimps can be left wing. More left-wingers support legalised prostitution than right-wingers.
Good Point RMan.  Legal vs inllegal { black market } prostitution makes a differrence for sure also.

Men and women both want to have sex, and it should be allowed legally and safely for both sexes but primarily will help men to release [ fulfill ) that genetic drive of tension.  And ldirectly lessen and reverse he population increase that humanity seriously does not need  with the current systems humanity has to ' progress' sanely within the ecology that sustains uw.



#101
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@ebuc
#102
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@ILikePie5
What lessons will Americans draw from the 2001 Microsoft case?

Don’t be too successful. Success creates envy and attracts government regulators, who seem driven to attack the most productive people in our society. Bill Gates draws praise from the cultural elite when he gives away his money — and he has given away more than $20 billion — but he has done far more good for the world by creating and marketing something useful for the entirety of society than by giving away some of the profits he earned.

Hire a lobbyist. For about 20 years Gates and his colleagues just sat out there in “the other Washington,” creating and selling. As the company got bigger, Washington, D.C., politicians and journalists began sneering at Microsoft’s political innocence. A congressional aide once told the press, “They don’t want to play the D.C. game, that’s clear, and they’ve gotten away with it so far. The problem is, in the long run they won’t be able to.” Politicians told Bill Gates, “Nice little company ya got there. Shame if anything happened to it.” And Microsoft got the message: If you want to produce something in America, you’d better play the game. In 1995, after repeated assaults by the Federal Trade Commission and the Justice Department, Microsoft broke down and started playing the Washington game. It hired lobbyists and Washington PR firms. Its executives made political contributions. And every other high‐tech company is getting the message, too, which is great news for lobbyists and fundraisers.

What lesson should they draw?

The antitrust laws are fatally flawed. When our antitrust laws are used by competitors to harm successful companies, when our most innovative companies are under assault from the federal government, when lawyers and politicians decide to restructure the software, credit‐card and airline industries, it’s time to repeal the antitrust laws and let firms compete in a free marketplace.

Janet Reno didn’t send a SWAT team to Redmond in the middle of the night. But the bottom line is the same: She used the power of government to steal what the people at Microsoft created.

#103
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@bmdrocks21
If the GOP would become a populist conservative workers party
Ok, so basically abandon their identity and become a new NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY.

I'd be shocked if anyone calling themselves a "republican" could even utter the words, "POWER TO THE PEOPLE".
#104
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@Greyparrot
it’s time to repeal the antitrust laws and let firms compete in a free marketplace.
BRING BACK STANDARD OIL.

BRING BACK OUR MOBSTER GOD KINGS.
#105
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@Greyparrot
The antitrust laws are fatally flawed.
Do you understand that the OWNERS of Standard Oil and AT&T actually became vastly MORE WEALTHY after their monopolies were broken up?
#106
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@Greyparrot
Janet Reno didn’t send a SWAT team to Redmond in the middle of the night. But the bottom line is the same: She used the power of government to steal what the people at Microsoft created.
(IFF) mobster corporations want the GOVERNMENT to protect them from EVIL WORKERS UNIONS (THEN) they need to pay for that protection
#107
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My beliefs are built on what I see and happens to me directly. Many consider my beliefs to be conservative. They are very simple. Govt proves everyday just how wasteful, corrupt and useless it is so I want as little of it as possible. Basically get the fuck out of my face and let me keep what I earn.  The federal govt should provide for the defense of the nation and building roads and bridges all the rest should go to the states.
#108
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@sadolite
The federal govt should provide for the defense of the nation and building roads and bridges all the rest should go to the states.
100% THIS.
#109
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@Bringerofrain
So does regulation create monopolies like history has shown or does the free market create evil monopolies? 
YOUR LOGICAL FALLACY IS - FALSE DICHOTOMY.
#110
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@Bringerofrain
If you told the MOBSTERS of the 1920s that UNREGULATED BLACK MARKETS meant a few small businesses would control everything, they would laugh at you and point to the wild west nature of the UNREGULATED BLACK markets.

Are you perhaps familiar with the historical figure known as AL CAPONE?
#111
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@Greyparrot
I'm sure you meant to say, "Monopolies are INEVITABLE in a capitalistic society".
I'm sure you meant to say "Monopolies are INEVITABLE in a crony society".
Do you happen to believe that INHERITANCE should be abolished?
#112
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@Bringerofrain
regional utility monopolies
REGIONAL MONOPOLIES ARE NOT NECESSARILY EVIL.
#113
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@3RU7AL
I don't believe so. If I can show a direct causal relationship between regulations or economic interventions causing monopolies than we can show they are created by tinkering with markets and not in a free market. In fact you could point me towards any uncompetitive markets and I will be able to point to you the government interference that caused a barrier of entry to new competitors.


My premise is that interventions from government cause monopolies. In your first post to me you declared that capitalism (completely free markets devoid of manipulation or central planning) cause monopolies. 

#114
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@3RU7AL
I guess in theory you could claim they aren't evil despite destroying competition like drug cartels would do by getting the government to be their slaves as opposed to slaves of the people like intended.
#115
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@3RU7AL
Gangster capitalism is not real capitalism. In capitalism you would have laws that protect the negative rights of small business owners and new competitors in the market
#116
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@Bringerofrain
Did you know that the courts determined that corporations are people? This was done so companies could buy or intimidate politicians through lobbying.
Are you in favor of ABOLISHING CORPORATIONS?

AND, more significantly, are you in favor of ABOLISHING THE USE OF FINES AS PENALTIES?

(IFF) a corporation violates a law (THEN) real, actual EXECUTIVES (not just their disposable underlings) must be physically placed in an actual prison cell (and not "house arrest").
#117
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@3RU7AL
AND, more significantly, are you in favor of ABOLISHING THE USE OF FINES AS PENALTIES?
Yes, corporations have sent expired medicine overseas for example. Everyone in the chain of command that allowed that to happen should be criminally responsible for every death that resulted from that.  Some fines are just preemptive against potential harms. They should be eliminated and replaced with prison as a real deterrent. But as you know I am a consequentialist so if their behavior causes harm, they go to prison, but if the unethical practices lead to more overall good for society, I wouldn't punish them. 


#118
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@3RU7AL
I don’t think they need to go that overboard to get the vote. I think a widespread adoption of a protectionist capitalist platform would be good. Using tariffs to protect high-paying jobs that don’t require a college degree is the way to go.

Being socialist would definitely hurt them
#119
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@bmdrocks21
protect high-paying jobs that don’t require a college degree is the way to go.
NOBODY DOES THIS BETTER THAN WORKERS UNIONS.
#120
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@Bringerofrain
AND, more significantly, are you in favor of ABOLISHING THE USE OF FINES AS PENALTIES?
Yes, corporations have sent expired medicine overseas for example. Everyone in the chain of command that allowed that to happen should be criminally responsible for every death that resulted from that.  Some fines are just preemptive against potential harms. They should be eliminated and replaced with prison as a real deterrent.
100% THIS.

But as you know I am a consequentialist so if their behavior causes harm, they go to prison, but if the unethical practices lead to more overall good for society, I wouldn't punish them. 
So, are you suggesting that only crimes that produce an ACTUAL REAL-LIFE VICTIM should be enforced?

No more "driving while intoxicated" infractions?