What are conservatives... for?

Author: Double_R

Posts

Total: 207
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
You and I both dislike Reagan and his politics. We just disagree on Nixon. Nixon was corrupt as hell.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Bringerofrain
1. Let's do what is good for the country first and the world will benefit

Vs

2. Let's do what is best for the world first and america willl benefit.
This is a false construct. The choice in any situation is "how will America benefit?". Greater benefits demand higher priority. It matters not who benefit's "first".

This is why Trump is so toxic.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,936
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@RationalMadman
Conservatives are  for conserging their personal money for the rich at the expense of the middle class and poor, and this story dates back to the pimps operating the oldest profession known to humans.

If humanity every decides to act as unified whole, then a much larger portion of humanities intentions will have to become and all-for-one and one-for-all spirit of human's abilities  to access moral integrity.

United we stand and divided we fall just means there is still plenty of nuclear weapons in world to destroy most of humanity.

..."The Doomsday Clock is a symbol that represents the likelihood of a man-made global catastrophe. Maintained since 1947 by the members of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists,[1] the clock is a metaphor for threats to humanity from unchecked scientific and technical advances.

.....The clock represents the hypothetical global catastrophe as midnight and the Bulletin's opinion on how close the world is to a global catastrophe as a number of minutes or seconds to midnight, assessed in January of each year. The main factors influencing the clock are nuclear risk and climate change.[2] The Bulletin's Science and Security Board monitors new developments in the life sciences and technology that could inflict irrevocable harm to humanity.[3]

......The clock's original setting in 1947 was seven minutes to midnight. It has been set backward and forward 24 times since, the largest-ever number of minutes to midnight being 17 in 1991, and the smallest 100 seconds in 2020 and 2021.

....The clock was set at two minutes to midnight in January 2018, and left unchanged in 2019.[4] In January 2020, it was moved forward to 100 seconds before midnight.[5] In January 2021, the clock's setting was left unchanged.".....

My personal formula sets the approximate end-time-for-humanity around 2232. See LINK








Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
I thought accepting somalian refugees only benefited Somalian refugees. If not what is the let's argument for why somalian refugees benefit America?
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
You see it does only benefit Somalians, but liberals think helping out foreigners will somehow improve america. If the leftist argument is we should help who needs it the most even if it results in martyrdiom than that is very toxic itself, but I don't think the average liberal has that much self hatred and believe in karma of some sort
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ebuc
Pimps can be left wing. More left-wingers support legalised prostitution than right-wingers.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Bringerofrain
I thought accepting somalian refugees only benefited Somalian refugees. If not what is the let's argument for why somalian refugees benefit America?
No one is arguing it benefits America, it also doesn't hurt America. So absent an "America first" argument to be made, the only thing left is to consider the action on it's own merits. If I need to explain to you why it's good to do good things then we have much bigger issues than politics.

But even if you can find some reason to claim this it hurtful to the US, this is just a red herring. We're talking about ideologies. There will always be some situation where we have to make a choice as to whether we should give to someone else. Holding firm on never sacrificing for the good of others doesn't make you "America first", it just makes you an asshole. (not talking to you specifically, just describing the inference)
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@RationalMadman
Pimps can be left wing. More left-wingers support legalised prostitution than right-wingers.

Because you know, small government. So small that it can tell two consenting adults what they're allowed to agree to
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
A prostitute and a pimp is not a consenting relationship. Usually there is some human trafficking involved or a pimp keeping his hoes dependent on him and drugs. 
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
Like I said. Republicans care about what is good for America directly. If they can not think of a benefit to america for a policy they will reject it, such as with the refugee example. Policies that harm America, liberals don't mind because it improves the world. For example carbon taxes harm America because we end up exporting our carbon emissions to China. It benefits china because they take our jobs and our money goes there, but it hurts america, and democrats think the extremely marginal impact on the environment is worth it because of how global warming effects other countries. You are basically just using rhetoric to say you disagree with me, while when you explain yourself further it proves you actually do agree with me. Maybe you just like opposing people's opinions, even when those opinions are exactly the same as yours but merely worded differently
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Bringerofrain
If prostitution were legal, it would all be consensual.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,626
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Bringerofrain

Remember that Trump's Make America Great Again came from Hitler's Make Germany Great Again. Trump's first wife ,Ivana, said that Trump
kept a copy of Hitler's speeches by his bedside.


Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
I think legalizing it, would definitely put a huge dent in human trafficking. I agree with you
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@FLRW
I don't think the guy has a political ideology. I believe his campaign slogan was also copied from Ronald Reagan.  
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
Plus, I know how ex wives are. You can't trust anything they say. Vindictive
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Bringerofrain
It took a Hitler to bring 75 years of crippling FDR reforms to the Constitution about what the government can control in your life.

Thanks for nothing Hitler.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Bringerofrain
Policies that harm America, liberals don't mind because it improves the world. For example carbon taxes harm America because we end up exporting our carbon emissions to China. It benefits china because they take our jobs and our money goes there, but it hurts america, and democrats think the extremely marginal impact on the environment is worth it because of how global warming effects other countries.
You’re not even talking about America vs other countries, you’re talking about shortsightedness vs doing what’s best down the road.

No one benefits short term by forcing changes to combat climate change (except those who get ahead of it). This is about future generations. The fact that the rest of the world also benefits doesn’t mean they are our first concern. The world is not a zero sum game.

You are basically just using rhetoric to say you disagree with me, while when you explain yourself further it proves you actually do agree with me.
That’s your take. To me it doesn’t sound like you are listening very closely.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
It took a Hitler to bring 75 years of crippling FDR reforms to the Constitution about what the government can control in your life.
What is it with conservatives and their view of the government as some boogeyman coming to intrude upon us?
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
I already said it doesn't affect climate change in a noticable way, it merely exports are carbon to other countries and does significant damage to america short term, with a barely visible impact long term. The only logical reason to harm America that much for long term gain of barely anything, is if you think that the minor help you give to the world, will somehow come back and help america in the future through some kind of butterfly affect. 

I'm not saying liberals are wrong, but is absurd to think they put America first. They always default to thinking of the international community first. 

Even there you claim that the long term benefits of exporting our carbon to China outweighs the short term irreversible devastation. To doing so. So it seems your underlying ideology agrees with my analysis that liberals put the world first while thinking america will benefit. (See exporting carbon example) . While republicans once the conservatives are she'd will only care about putting America first and knowing the world benefits from a better america. 
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
Just so I understand your ideology. Is government inherently benevolent or is it possible for the government to be capable of horrible things and corruption?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Double_R
"Conservatives" are PRO-family values, PRO-small business, PRO-efficient government, and paradoxically PRO-gargantuan military.

In stark contrast,

"Liberals" are PRO-family values, PRO-small business, PRO-efficient government, and paradoxically PRO-gargantuan military.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
What is it with conservatives and their view of the government as some boogeyman coming to intrude upon us?
Because of stupid crony shit like this. I'm sick of the elite Washington DC mafia in charge of everything.


And make no mistake...the GOP isn't even close to being conservative.
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
If it isn't inherently benevolent than is grey parrot justified in thinking we should be cautious about how much power we give to government? 
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
This 'attack first, defend later' media war-front is much more seen in the 'Western world' whereas Eastern cultures operate either via censorship or defensive media, celebrating achievements, speaking well of the intentions of politicians etc.
Well stated.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
Then we have the Ancaps/Libartarians, who was almost as popular as position 2 and on official surveys often out-populate the nationalists because most nationalists tend to be 'in the closet' about their true agenda. The first problem is that Libertarians often deny they are Ancaps, since Ancaps are much more pragmatic and ruthlessly honest about their agenda, while Libertarians sugarcoat the 'dog eat dog' anti-harmony ethos they are trying to foster behind 'freedom for all' mantra. Libertarians tend to be very naive about what happens when you remove restrictions on the rich and/or normal to prey on the poor and/or minorities. Unrelenting Freedom is their top priority.
So, basically THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF BOTH PARTIES.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@3RU7AL
Also the opposite of themselves, since unrelenting freedom always becomes survival of the fittest which then becomes tyranny via brute force rule.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
Also the opposite of themselves, since unrelenting freedom always becomes survival of the fittest which then becomes tyranny via brute force rule.
Perhaps anarchy already exists and "THE GOVERNMENT" is merely the highest manifestation of organized crime.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Bringerofrain
If it isn't inherently benevolent than is grey parrot justified in thinking we should be cautious about how much power we give to government? 
Why don't you love your CORPORATE MOBSTER GOD KINGS?
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
If my corporate mob kings were interested in improving society in some way, I'd be the first to offer up my worship.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Bringerofrain
Every corporate "king" was elected by consumers for producing things monumentally beneficial to society, not by divine right.