Our most basic axioms

Author: secularmerlin

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#571
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
my goal becomes to protect others from the offending individual NOT to punish them.
Well, how do you go about protecting them 🤔?

THEN the most preferable action is to promote wellbeing and then accept the unjust punishment gracefully and courageously.
Prove it.
#572
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@zedvictor4
That makes no sense.
#573
3RU7AL
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@secularmerlin
Tttmttfwtinkm was once responsible for making lighting. Now we have another explanation.
SCIENCE ANSWERS "HOW?"

RELIGION (MYTHOLOGY) ANSWERS "WHY?"

The two questions never actually cross-paths.
#574
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@Tarik
It would if you cared to think about it.
#575
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@zedvictor4
Logic isn’t predicated on whether or not we care, your clutching at straws now zed.
#576
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Interestingly....Logic is generally predicated on words, and the sequential application thereof.
#577
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@zedvictor4
Correction, that’s just how we communicate logic, but there’s many ways to be logical without words.
#578
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@Tarik
So give me an example of Logic without using using a narrative.
#579
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@secularmerlin
This means that LIVING humans caring about [some proximate subset of] each other rather than disregarding other humans [wholesale] and their wellbeing is a logical necessity more than a goal.
It's almost as if simply being alive is evidence that you've taken some actions to maintain your own life (at a minimum) and maintaining your own life requires some level of cooperation with other humans.
#580
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@zedvictor4
Looking on both sides before you cross the street.
#581
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@Tarik
Hmmm.

So once again this comes down to how we view function and process.

I will give you, that arriving at a practical solution requires logical thought....But is this a necessary process every time we cross a road?

Isn't this simply about the acquisition and subsequent application of stored information, rather than logically sequencing information every time we need to cross a road.

Their is a  case for both I suppose....But I would suggest that this just reinforces my assertion that all human data output is basically subjective. 
#582
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@zedvictor4
all human data output is basically subjective. 
Whatever, as long as you don’t call that output morality.
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#583
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my goal becomes to protect others from the offending individual NOT to punish them.
Well, how do you go about protecting them 🤔?
That is not the issue under discussion until we actually establish this as the goal and once thus the goal punishment isn't the goal... even if it does turn out to be a consequence of the goal.
THEN the most preferable action is to promote wellbeing and then accept the unjust punishment gracefully and courageously.
Prove it.
I start all my syllogisms IF.

When you focus on the conclusion then you aren't actually addressing the arguments at all.

Anyway as I said before this is easier than you seem to think. 

One question. Do you think human wellbeing is worth promoting? It doesn't matter if it is you main goal or not it only matters if you think it is preferable to human harm.

So before we continue please answer yes or no. Is human wellbeing (as we are using the term in this discussion) preferable to human harm.

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#584
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@3RU7AL
It's almost as if simply being alive is evidence that you've taken some actions to maintain your own life (at a minimum) and maintaining your own life requires some level of cooperation with other humans.
Almost.
#585
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@secularmerlin
That is not the issue under discussion
Actually it is, YOU’RE the one that mentioned protection, I’m simply asking how you insist on doing so, if your goal doesn’t have an answer to these questions then it fails to address context and it’s inherently vague.

Do you think human wellbeing is worth promoting?
Only if there’s proof of so.
#586
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@secularmerlin
When you focus on the conclusion then you aren't actually addressing the arguments at all.
Well stated.
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#587
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@Tarik
Do you think human wellbeing is worth promoting?
Only if there’s proof of so.
Are you of the opinion that promoting human wellbeing is worthwhile? Is seeing to the health and safety of others worthwhile to you personally outside this conversation something you personally think one ought to do? In real life do you promote health and protect people whenever possible and especially at little cost to yourself?

#588
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@secularmerlin
Are you of the opinion that promoting human wellbeing is worthwhile?
I don’t think anything worthwhile (if there’s such a thing) is opinionated.
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#589
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@Tarik
Are you of the opinion that promoting human wellbeing is worthwhile?
I don’t think anything worthwhile (if there’s such a thing) is opinionated.
This doesn't answer my question. 

Also "I don’t think anything worthwhile (if there’s such a thing) is opinionated." Is an opinion. 

#590
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@secularmerlin
I can’t answer a question if I disagree with the framing and something that’s worthwhile is synonymous to REWARDING and I guess you know where I’m going with this after using that term.
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#591
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@Tarik
So what you are saying is that you are a sociopath?
#592
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@secularmerlin
...I stand corrected you don’t know where I’m going, what made you come to that conclusion?
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#593
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@Tarik
I asked you a yes no question. I am paraphrasing here but my question was do you care about human welfare. You did not say yes and the alternative to caring about human welfare is called sociopathy. It has an entry in the DMS.
#594
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@secularmerlin
So what you are saying is that you are a sociopath?
Even a sociopath understands in practical terms that they cannot survive in isolation.
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#595
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@3RU7AL
Even a sociopath understands in practical terms that they cannot survive in isolation.
That's true but I'm having trouble getting to the ground floor on this one. Bumpy ride and the elevator keeps going up again even when I push the down button  
#596
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I asked you a yes no question.
I can’t answer with a yes or a no if I don’t agree with the framing of the question, I’ve made that clear already. 

I am paraphrasing here but my question was do you care about human welfare.
Except you left out the OPINIONATED aspect of the question, one of our many disagreements you’ve seem to just write off.

You did not say yes and the alternative to caring about human welfare is called sociopathy.
I didn’t say no either.

Also "I don’t think anything worthwhile (if there’s such a thing) is opinionated." Is an opinion.
No, because if it leads to reward and/or avoids punishment then that’s objective proof that it’s worthwhile making it a fact.

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#597
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@Tarik
It's really simple. Yes or no do you care about human welfare?

#598
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@Tarik
No, because if it leads to reward and/or avoids punishment then that’s objective proof that it’s worthwhile making it a fact.
Are you trying to say, (IFF) heaven and hell is real (THEN) i care about human wellbeing (?)

Or perhaps,

(IFF) i believe heaven and hell is real (THEN) i care about human wellbeing (?)
#599
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@secularmerlin
Yeah sure what’s your point?
#600
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@3RU7AL
What’s the difference honestly?