The great atheist deception

Author: Soluminsanis

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@Tarik
Then every time you make your “moral” claims you’re wrong it’s that simple. Do you realize what you’re saying here? Your essentially saying your wrong about every belief you hold.
A moral claim cannot be false.

In the same way a statement of opinion cannot be false.

A moral claim cannot be true.

In the same way a statement of opinion cannot be true.
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@Tarik
@Theweakeredge
Lol it seems like it's always you two
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@Soluminsanis
Very impressive.

P1. If atheism is true,
ATHEISM = NO OMNIPOTENT OMNISCIENT CREATOR GODS

our sensory perception and cognitive faculties were not designed
More specifically, NOT DESIGNED BY OMNIPOTENT OMNISCIENT CREATOR GODS

to fulfill a specific telos, namely, the acquisition of truth and discerning of reality as it actually is,
Would you say that, (IFF) ATHEISM = FALSE (THEN) HUMANS ARE PURPOSE BUILT TO DETECT AND CATALOG REAL-TRUE-FACTS(?)

Do you really believe that the ultimate goal of humanity is to simply detect reality?


Is this what you think GOD's plan is for us?


but rather, evolved through processes which aimed solely at the passing on of the creature's DNA. 
Non sequitur.

ATHEISM =/= DARWINISM

P2. The passing on of the creature's DNA does not necessarily entail truth. 
Well, an organism must be able to ACCURATELY DETECT REAL-TRUE-reproductive bodies and food.

P3. Therefore the atheist's sensory perceptions and cognitive faculties do not necessarily yield truth.
You inexplicably dropped your conditional.

Let me STEEL-MAN this for ya,

(IFF) ATHEISM = FALSE (THEN) human sensory perceptions and cognitive faculties do not necessarily yield truth for anything not directly related to survival and reproduction.

P4. Therefore if atheism is true,  there is no justification for believing anything to be true.
Except for all sensory detection directly and indirectly related to survival and reproduction.

P5. We intuit some things are in fact true, and do so with proper justification.  
Sometimes "we" do and sometimes "we" don't.

Please make your definition of the aforementioned parameter, "proper justification" EXPLICIT.

P6. Therefore atheism is false.
(IFF) ATHEISM = FALSE (P1) (THEN) ATHEISM = FALSE (P6)

That seems plausible.
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@Theweakeredge
because goals are intrinsinically subjective
What if you could make an objective case for the goal, like you would be unhappy for eternity if you don’t have this goal. The fact that nobody wants to be unhappy is objective.
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@Tarik
What if you could make an objective case for the goal, like you would be unhappy for eternity if you don’t have this goal. The fact that nobody wants to be unhappy is objective.
You could write a conditional statement.

(IFF) HAPPINESS = MORALITY (THEN) UNHAPPINESS = IMMORALITY

Even if all humans agreed on something, (like avoiding unhappiness) that agreement itself (argumentum ad populum) would not magically transform their opinions into FACTS.
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@Tarik
The fact that nobody wants to be unhappy is objective
Not true, Humans are not designed to be happy, or even content. Instead, we are designed primarily to survive and reproduce, like every other creature in the natural world. A state of contentment is discouraged by nature because it would lower our guard against possible threats to our survival. The fact that evolution has prioritized the development of a big frontal lobe in our brain (which gives us excellent executive and analytical abilities) over a natural ability to be happy, tells us a lot about nature’s priorities. Different geographical locations and circuits in the brain are each associated with certain neurological and intellectual functions, but happiness, being a mere construct with no neurological basis, cannot be found in the brain tissue.


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@FLRW
The fact that nobody wants to be unhappy is objective
Not true, Humans are not designed to be happy, or even content. Instead, we are designed primarily to survive and reproduce, like every other creature in the natural world. A state of contentment is discouraged by nature because it would lower our guard against possible threats to our survival. The fact that evolution has prioritized the development of a big frontal lobe in our brain (which gives us excellent executive and analytical abilities) over a natural ability to be happy, tells us a lot about nature’s priorities. Different geographical locations and circuits in the brain are each associated with certain neurological and intellectual functions, but happiness, being a mere construct with no neurological basis, cannot be found in the brain tissue.
Well, this might change your mind slightly, (Connect, Contribute, Cope, Cook (CCCC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sRsb0a30Y)
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@Tarik
Nope, that is a subjective goal - you have assumptions which make you think of them as objective - your presonal increduality is not a justification for you not accepting subjective morality.
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@Tarik
Because it's entertaining....And just to affirm....Because it's entertaining....And just to reaffirm....Because it's entertaining.


Oh... And because of the personal and variable nature of internally generated morality, I choose to regard it as subjective.

But if you choose to think that morality is something consistent, that manifests out of thin air, onto the pages of a supernatural book, then you are welcome to label, as you see fit.





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@3RU7AL
Even if all humans agreed on something, (like avoiding unhappiness) that agreement itself (argumentum ad populum) would not magically transform their opinions into FACTS.
It’s not an opinion that nobody wants to be unhappy.
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@Tarik
It is neither a fact - it is a perspective of human minds - subjective.
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@FLRW
A state of contentment is discouraged by nature because it would lower our guard against possible threats to our survival.
You can be happy and careful at the same time the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
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@Theweakeredge
Nope, that is a subjective goal - you have assumptions which make you think of them as objective - your presonal increduality is not a justification for you not accepting subjective morality.
Well you don’t have to view the goal as moral just the result when it’s achieved.

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@Tarik
Ought - Ought

Ought x is

is x ought

is - is

Ought is - Ought

Ought is x is


The goal is a part of the syllogism, otherwise that syllogism isn't a sequitur
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@zedvictor4
Because it's entertaining....And just to affirm....Because it's entertaining....And just to reaffirm....Because it's entertaining.
This isn’t responsive to anything I said, especially since I already acknowledged your affirmations.

Oh... And because of the personal and variable nature of internally generated morality, I choose to regard it as subjective.
There is no such thing.
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@Theweakeredge
it is a perspective of human minds 
It’s a fact that it’s a perspective of human minds.

The goal is a part of the syllogism, otherwise that syllogism isn't a sequitur
Once you add proof into the equation that’s when something is objective so if theirs objective proof that you should have a goal (heaven) that proof overrules any subjectivity.
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@Tarik
Even if all humans agreed on something, (like avoiding unhappiness) that agreement itself (argumentum ad populum) would not magically transform their opinions into FACTS.
It’s not an opinion that nobody wants to be unhappy.
Well, it's certainly NOT a fact.

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@Tarik
so if theirs objective proof that you should have a goal (heaven) that proof overrules any subjectivity.
Even if you consider "get to heaven" an AXIOM, there are still about eleven-zillion ways to make that happen.
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@3RU7AL
Masochism makes no sense and you only know them as they are (alive).

Even if you consider "get to heaven" an AXIOM, there are still about eleven-zillion ways to make that happen.
Be a good person that’s the only way I can think of.

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@Tarik
Masochism makes no sense and you only know them as they are (alive).
And yet, simply because you personally don't understand it, doesn't make it stop.

Even if you consider "get to heaven" an AXIOM, there are still about eleven-zillion ways to make that happen.
Be a good person that’s the only way I can think of.
Is that your "objective morality"?

BE A GOOD PERSON.

I agree.

Be someone you can be proud of.

And don't do it out of greed for some promise of reward.

And don't do it out of fear for some horrifying punishment.

And don't do it to make other people proud of you.

Do it for yourself.
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@3RU7AL
And yet, simply because you personally don't understand it, doesn't make it stop.
Whatever like I said you only know them as they are (alive).
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@Tarik
And yet, simply because you personally don't understand it, doesn't make it stop.
Whatever like I said you only know them as they are (alive).
Alive and Sad.

Some people actually do not want to be happy.
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@3RU7AL
Some people actually do not want to be happy.
How do you know? And how do you know that doesn’t change if they’re in hell?
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@Tarik
Some people actually do not want to be happy.
How do you know? And how do you know that doesn’t change if they’re in hell?
I'm not convinced any dead people "want" anything.
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@3RU7AL
I'm not convinced any dead people "want" anything.
Well if your right then nihilism is correct.
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The flaws in Soluminsansis' syllogism:

P1. If atheism is true, our sensory perception and cognitive faculties were not designed to fulfill a specific telos, namely, the acquisition of truth and discerning of reality as it actually is, but rather, evolved through processes which aimed solely at the passing on of the creature's DNA. 
Sensation and perception are two different processes, though they are related. However, saying that these separate functions relate to a telos [an ultimate purpose] is a stretch. That our sensations and perception of same as a means to discover truths of the world around us is a valid result of that perception, but our physical sensory inputs are all of an external nature; our contact with the world around us. What we think, what we conclude on what we think has an entirely different input than external forces. Therefore, P1 is not a constant dependable to rely on the conclusion [P6, which ought to be 'C']

P2. The passing on of the creature's DNA does not necessarily entail truth. 
The passing of DNA, as stated [P1, and, assumed for P2] Is not an uninterrupted series of duplicated DNA for inheritance purposes, one generation to the next. According to Scientific American, life experience, particularly early life experience, has a direct effect on modification of DNA, which may, generation to generation, have its imprinted effect. There4fore, P2 is also flawed as stated, because, as stated, the perception of truth may be influenced by experience, and P2 does not account for that experiential modification.

P3. Therefore the atheist's sensory perceptions and cognitive faculties do not necessarily yield truth.

The yield of truth may be equally affected in the theist's sense and perception, so this posit is a non sequitur.

P4. Therefore if atheism is true,  there is no justification for believing anything to be true.
Just as P3 is a variable for atheists, so it is for theists. Therefore, P4 is also a non sequitur.

P5. We intuit some things are in fact true, and do so with proper justification.  

This is the only valid posit of the bunch, but, strictly on the basis of sensory perception, and purpose, this is function for both atheist and theist. Therefore, it is a non sequitur.

P6. Therefore atheism is false.
p6, as noted, is truly a conclusion, or should be, but given the non sequiturs, it is not, not merely another posit. Howevere, also given the non sequiturs, an aatheist can just as easily conclude theism is false.

I happen to agree with Soluminsanis, but not by this syllogism.
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@Tarik
I'm not convinced any dead people "want" anything.
Well if your right then nihilism is correct.
Lacking belief in heaven doesn't automatically make you a nihilist.
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@3RU7AL
Maybe but it’s the only logical position there is if there is no heaven.
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@Tarik
Maybe but it’s the only logical position there is if there is no heaven.
Imagine being born in some wild land many long years before books.

You're born into a loving family.

You grow up and learn to grow and gather food and weave clothing and make shelter.

You start your own family and you love them even more than you imagined was possible.

You see your children grow up and learn the things you learned.

And then you see them start their own families.

Is this a meaningless life?
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@3RU7AL
Is this a meaningless life?
No, that’s why I believe in a heaven that validates that life.