Who here supports political compass as the best online political alignment test?

Author: RationalMadman
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#31
oromagi
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@3RU7AL
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The best test of one's political alignment is a free and fair election.
IMPLEMENT AUTOMATIC REDISTRICTING.
agree. 

WE MUST DEMAND RCV.
I support RCV.  Two towns in Colorado already do RCV and there's a bill in the State House right now to build a county infrastructure for any district that wants ranked choice.

END PRIMARY ELECTIONS.
How does this work?


#32
fauxlaw
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@3RU7AL
Since, politically, I am a sermonist, [not R or D, or S, or any other alpha] my measuring stick is the Sermon on the Mount [Matthew 5 - 7] Not a political platform? The hell it isn't. There is no better cure of society's problems, [the purpose of politics, no?] all of them, than adherence to the principles taught in the Sermon on the Mount. It is an excellent political platform, but I may be its only declared constituent. Better, each platform plank grows from the last, until the ultimate plank is reached: love your enemies. How better to treat an enemy than to make one a friend? They begin with personal improvements, then transcend to helping others. No better way to live was ever proposed. It's why C.K. Chesterton once said, it isn't that Christianity has been tried and found wanting; it's that it has never been tried. We should try it.  
#33
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@oromagi
END PRIMARY ELECTIONS.
How does this work?
Instead of letting the parties pre-select the candidates for the general election, use RCV in the general election and let all the candidates who would normally only run in the primary elections participate in the general election.

PRIMARY ELECTIONS ARE A SCAM.
#34
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@fauxlaw
my measuring stick is the Sermon on the Mount
Do you believe a government should enforce "love thy neighbor"?

Or do you believe each person should voluntarily "love thy neighbor"?
#35
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@oromagi
Liz Cheney has forgotten her father? I'm sure you were complaining then, too.
#36
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@3RU7AL
You miss the entire point of the SoM. Consult Jim Madison; If men were angels, they would not need government. Reagan, too; Government is not the answer. Where should enforcement be? What ever happened to personal responsibility? See the SoM. It's one eternal round.
#37
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@3RU7AL
A liberal is someone who is liberal with someone else's money.
#38
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@3RU7AL
Do you believe a government should enforce "love thy neighbor"?

If people don't individually choose to love their neighbor, what makes you think they then magically have the capacity to create an overreaching oligarchy that can?

If you go down that road, the only proper governance of man to compensate for the "human condition" can only come from AI.
#39
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@fauxlaw
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Liz Cheney has forgotten her father?
Liz Cheney represents her father, both literally and figuratively.  Let's note that Bush also made a particular and public point of connecting himself to Cheney's "greatest betrayal of America ever" remarks.  Nothing that I've said should be mistaken for a change of alignment regarding Cheney nor do I want to discourage the civil war now now mustering within the GOP.  I'm just saying its a bad look for Republicans to tear down their senior leadership exclusively for speaking objective truths on the House floor. 

Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel.
#40
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@oromagi
The best test of one's political alignment is a free and fair election.
Reads well, but that's not the case. The best test of one's  political alignment is his/her capacity to dissent.

#41
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@RationalMadman
There's many flaws with it but I've seen three avid fans of it recently post demands for another user (one was me being asked by 3RU7AL) to take it and reveal the result.

I went into depth on the general types of flaws that are consistent in the test but I'm willing to lay out each flawed question as well as to Kritik auth vs lib being a flawed scale itself since one can be auth on one issue and lib on another while in between on another with a consistent outlook despite inconsistent authoritarianism vs libertarianism.

Who here likes this test a lot?
Political compass tests are as gimmicky and intuitive as those paper pyramid fortune tellers with which kids play. Nevertheless, I don't oppose them, and I'd go as far as to to state that I like them. I believe that they serve as a good starting point for political introspection. I took one--and only one--several years ago which correctly surmised that I was an individualist.

#42
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@Athias
Reads well, but that's not the case. The best test of one's a political alignment is his/her capacity to dissent.
Correct, otherwise the people do not get to decide what is a "fair" or "free" process.

The concept of "Free elections" is a scam anyway because it implies no responsibility for making decisions that affect others. There are always consequences to elections. Nothing is really "free" 

Which is why voter age is a restriction as well as citizenship. Although there are people in power that would like to see those go away in the name of "free elections" so they can receive votes from people that would suffer no immediate consequences.


#43
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@Greyparrot
Correct, otherwise the people do not get to decide what is a "fair" or "free" process.

The concept of "Free elections" is a scam anyway because it implies no responsibility for making decisions that affect others. There are always consequences to elections. Nothing is really "free" 
Well stated.

#44
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The best test of one's political alignment is a free and fair election.
Reads well, but that's not the case. The best test of one's a political alignment is his/her capacity to dissent.
That's a test of liberty but I don't see how capacity to dissent reflects political alignment.  Nelson Mandela is somebody who experienced a wide spectrum of variation in his capacity to dissent, for example, but we don't see corresponding shifts in political alignment.  If anything, I'd expect reductions in capacity to dissent to reinforce or entrench alignment.  I'd venture that the wealthy consistently enjoy improved capacity to dissent but we don't see a corresponding  consistency in the politics of the rich.

#45
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@Athias
Reads well, but that's not the case. The best test of one's  political alignment is his/her capacity to dissent.
Expanding on this point, it realistically takes very little critical thinking for most people to agree with the status quo. In fact, it is the default position of all of the intellectually complacent. Therefore measuring agreement with elections is probably the worst measure for evaluating an individual's political decision-making process. There are plenty of people who have valid political opinions that choose to abstain from rigged contests. How are those people "tested" by "free" and "fair" elections?

Even moreso in elections where there is no RCV.
#46
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@oromagi
That's a test of liberty but I don't see how capacity to dissent reflects political alignment.  Nelson Mandela is somebody who experienced a wide spectrum of variation in his capacity to dissent, for example, but we don't see corresponding shifts in political alignment.  If anything, I'd expect reductions in capacity to dissent to reinforce or entrench alignment.  I'd venture that the wealthy consistently enjoy improved capacity to dissent but we don't see a corresponding  consistency in the politics of the rich.
Yes, and "liberty" plays a foundational role in one's political alignment. In a totalitarian and dictatorial nation, for example, there's one party--the dictator's/autocrat's party. Dissent means death. Here in the United States, where it's "less" autocratic, the capacity to dissent manifests in a wide scope of political ideologies. You can have for example, "Democrats," "The Naderists" and "the Green Party," despite their differences being inconsequentially nuanced.
#47
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@Athias
The best test of one's  political alignment is his/her capacity to dissent.
No, the best of man's political alignment is to no longer need politics nor government to act properly.
#48
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@oromagi
Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel.
Deceit is an inappropriate goal, and gravel need not be the result if one never grovels. We ignore Madison at our peril. If men were angels, they would not need government.
#49
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@fauxlaw
No, the best of man's political alignment is to no longer need politics nor government to act properly.

This is what Karl Marx believed, that when the Rich Class was forcibly eliminated from the planet, then the inherently good proletariats would no longer need order from authority and that government would be abolished.
That is the theory.

In practice, It's actually going to take something noticeably drastic like re-engineering the Human DNA or submitting to an AI overlord for your vision to happen.
#50
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@Greyparrot
Karl Marx believed
Karl Marx understood neither bourgeois nor proletariat, because he never ran a lemonade stand. He believed there was ownership and labor. The fact is, labor accounts for 40%, on average, of an enterprise's revenue, and Marx believe the balance was bourgeois profit. Because he never ran a lemonade stand, he never understood business necessities, like product D&D, marketing, materials logistics, manufacturing, warehousing, shipping, and customer service, and all the expense of hiring that expertise and paying for it. Marx believed bourgeois profited 60%, because he never ran a lemonade stand. Show me the country that began by socialism. None. Some countries become socialist, and they tend to die within 40 years. USSR Holds the record at 75 years. China is coming close, but is their economy really a socialist model, now? No. Meanwhile, There's a free market capitalist enterprise 230 years and counting. Actually more like 400 years, because the colonies operated that way, too. I'm betting on that system
#51
3RU7AL
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@fauxlaw
Government is not the answer.
So, would you call yourself an "ANARCHIST"?
#52
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@Greyparrot
Do you believe a government should enforce "love thy neighbor"?
If people don't individually choose to love their neighbor, what makes you think they then magically have the capacity to create an overreaching oligarchy that can?

If you go down that road, the only proper governance of man to compensate for the "human condition" can only come from AI.
So, would you call yourself an "ANARCHIST"?
#53
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@Greyparrot
A liberal is someone who is liberal with someone else's money.
A "classical liberal" is someone who believes people should be able to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies on their own property.
#54
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@Athias
You can have for example, "Democrats," "The Naderists" and "the Green Party," despite their differences being inconsequentially nuanced.
DEMOCRAT = PRO CORPORATE MOBSTERS

NADERIST = ANTI-CORPORATE MOBSTERS

GREEN = GREENPEACE PETA TERRORISTS
#55
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@fauxlaw
No, the best of man's political alignment is to no longer need politics nor government to act properly.
Therefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtue

Virtue is lost, and then benevolence

Benevolence is lost, and then righteousness

Righteousness is lost, and then etiquette

Those who have etiquette

are a thin shell of loyalty and sincerity

And the beginning of chaos

Those with foreknowledge

Are the flowers of the Tao

And the beginning of ignorance

Therefore the great person:

Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shell

Abides in the real, and does not dwell on the flower
#56
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@Greyparrot
In practice, It's actually going to take something noticeably drastic like re-engineering the Human DNA or submitting to an AI overlord for your vision to happen.
#57
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@fauxlaw
Show me the country that began by socialism.
Every country began by socialism.
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#58
RationalMadman
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@3RU7AL
Actually Fauxlaw has a point. No country starts off socialist, they become it over time.
#59
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@RationalMadman
Actually Fauxlaw has a point. No country starts off socialist, they become it over time.
Name one please.
#60
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@3RU7AL
No. I accept that government must exist because we are not angels, yet. But, I disagree that government is the only answer, and that seems to be what it thinks, right now.