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@LikeMagic
Oromagi is town as well so include that
XMAS 2020 Mafia - Day Phase 1
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@LikeMagic
what is your basis for wanting a claim from water? Are you asking for a full claim?
He's at 4/7. That's fairly close to being lynched. Either he claims to try and avoid it or he just ends up getting lynched.
What are your full reads before this DP ends?
I don't like it when people demand other's reads. Develop your own reads.
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@drafterman
He's at 4/7. That's fairly close to being lynched. Either he claims to try and avoid it or he just ends up getting lynched.
So you're willing to lynch him if he doesn't claim when 1) there's no indication he's online to do so right now, and 2) you do not specifically have a scum read on him. sounds like scum trying to bandwagon a quick mislynch at the end of the DP.
I don't like it when people demand other's reads. Develop your own reads.
I have outlined my reads in full detail. You have been floating along without participating much, making random commentary here and there that doesn't have the effect of scum hunting. Your facepalm comment in response to Water's inno statement seemed especially forced and lacking in town utility. So yes, I want your reads, to make you actually commit to something and contribute substantively. Right now you're being pretty suspicious in your play and we need to sort your affiliation and motives.
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@ILikePie5
Would like more from him though because he’s our only confirmed town and his input would be more genuine than everyone else.
Not having much insight into a low information scenario is my genuine input. I could manufacture little melodramas based on nothing which I know is the popular sport of DP1s, but that would not be genuine input from me.
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@Lunatic
@That1User
Are y’all voting Bullish to lynch or for a full claim?
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@LikeMagic
He's at 4/7. That's fairly close to being lynched. Either he claims to try and avoid it or he just ends up getting lynched.So you're willing to lynch him if he doesn't claim when 1) there's no indication he's online to do so right now, and 2) you do not specifically have a scum read on him. sounds like scum trying to bandwagon a quick mislynch at the end of the DP.
And you sound like someone that doesn't know what's going on in the game. For one, I'm not even voting him. That Water is on his way to getting lynched is an objective observation of the state of the game, not an indication of what I want to happen.
He is at 4/7 and his lynch is being called for. He if he wants to avoid it, he should claim. I explicitly prompt him to see if he actually does claim so I can then decide whether or not I'm willing to lynch him. I don't scum read him now, which is why I'm not voting him now. But whether he decides to claim and what he claims if he decides to do so, could change that.
I don't like it when people demand other's reads. Develop your own reads.I have outlined my reads in full detail.
Then I fail to see what you need with mine.
You have been floating along without participating much, making random commentary here and there that doesn't have the effect of scum hunting. Your facepalm comment in response to Water's inno statement seemed especially forced and lacking in town utility. So yes, I want your reads, to make you actually commit to something and contribute substantively. Right now you're being pretty suspicious in your play and we need to sort your affiliation and motives.
I know you want my reads. I saw your demand for my reads in your first post. The post I explicitly responded to quoting the part where you demanded my reads. And, again, I am refusing the demand. When I develop and read and feel it is necessary to share it with the Town, I will do so.
I have never been one of these people that puts everyone into a Town/Scum pile 5 minutes into the game and puts it all out there. Even if I was the kind of player that develops reads I don't think it's necessarily prudent to share it all immediately. If I feel there is a scum person that needs to be lynched, I will provide such information as I think is necessary to see that they get lynched. If I feel there is a Town person about to be mislynched, I will provide such information as I think is necessary to see them not get lynched.
Outside of that, there is little utility in providing "full reads" on demand. I'll provide what I want, when I want.
There is exactly one way to "sort out" my affiliation: lynch me and see how I flip.
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@drafterman
Have you claimed yet?
no
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@ILikePie5
I’ve been saying this for like the past 3 games
ya and guess whos been town these last 3 games
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@WaterPhoenix
Are you planning to?
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@drafterman
okay i just saw that you're against me too so since i have to go and won't make it back before the end of this dp i'll claim.
i'm elf on the shelf and i'm a tracker, the justifcation is relatively self explanatory. elf on the shelf sees stuff and tells santa about them, making me a tracker. please don't be stupid and lynch me while i'm gone.
VTL Bullish
dropping that here because i forgot to do it earlier.
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@LikeMagic
It's generally pretty rich coming from you to take the stance that, because my job gets busy for a few hours, that I'm somehow lying low and avoiding addressing the claims you're making. It's especially rich when you haven't addressed the last two posts I've made in response to you. If your goal is to ignore what I'm saying and pretend that that somehow justifies your reads of me, mission accomplished!
Let's just ignore the fact that I've been working on an RFD for a long debate on this site, a point that both Speedrace and MisterChris are privy to because I lost a great deal of that RFD last night and commiserated with them about it. Let's just ignore that I'm still relatively new to my position at a job I took on about a month ago, and am still working on moving into my apartment. Clearly, my lack of dedication to this mafia game in the face of all this is a massive scum tell. It's apparently also a scum tell for me to push for a claim and then back off before someone was needlessly lynched, despite being entirely consistent with my behavior in every other game. Also, apparently introspection is scummy. Surprised you haven't jumped on anyone else for that.
As for my reads, as per usual, I don't feel confident on any of them, hence my persistence on the VTNL. However, I'll give my takes.
01 Speedrace - reads slight town to me behaviorally
03 Supa - the non-CC'd Santa claim has me thinking he's town. The focus on questions regarding the specific identity of his Santa gave me a stronger inkling as to the theme, and I'm not convinced that there aren't other, distinct Santa claims in the game.
04 Lunatic - reads slight town as well, behaviorally
05 oromagi - obviously town
06 drafterman - null. Had a bad experience with trying to push him in the last game when he was TP, and he seems a bit obstinate again, but that's not unusual for draft, so I'm withholding judgement.
07 that1user - null, though perhaps a bit too focused on the TP angle. I was one of the Mimes with Danielle in the game she's referenced, and I can understand being a little sus of that, so I don't blame her for considering that.
08 Pie - reads slight town on behavior. Haven't seen anything strongly convincing yet, and I've been fooled by Pie before, but his analysis has been pretty good so far.
09 LikeMagic - the tunneling isn't helping with my behavioral analysis of you, though from what I've been hearing, this isn't a first. The Hated claim balances out my concerns and makes me see you as null, but my lack of experience playing with you is probably not helping on that front.
10 Bullish - early tunneling and aggression from him isn't terribly surprising, given games we've done on discord, but my experience with him has usually not been this strange. He usually stays quieter when he's scum, but that's only been on Discord, and I suspect his play is a little different in forum games. I'm seeing him as slightly sus behaviorally, though I don't think that WP and Bullish are a scum team. It's probably one or the other.
11 WaterPhoenix - the stronger of my scum reads up to this point, though I'm always concerned about reading too deep into what WP says. It always feels like I'm attributing far more subterfuge to his actions, and that may be the case here. That being said, the business surrounding the innocent child and his understanding of the role doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and while that misunderstanding isn't itself scummy, some of his responses haven't helped his case.
12 MisterChris - null. Can't say much about him yet, but he's playing like normal up to this point.
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@whiteflame
FYI: I wasn't TP last game, I was Mafia.
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@WaterPhoenix
I never said I was against you. Dude, if anything I'm defending you.
Anyways, Elf on the Shelf as tracker is a stretch. It's more likely that the Elf would be a watcher but watcher could go with Santa so maybe it was something Danielle had to shoe-horn in.
I would also by the Elf as a Hider.
Going to finally eat lunch and catch up on this while I'm at it. Happy to say that my experiment's working today, thought that might be more of a struggle.
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@drafterman
FYI: I wasn't TP last game, I was Mafia.
Ah, my bad. I misread the flips for the Endgame, though it said you were a TP with DP3 Deathproof, but now I see that it didn't say whether you won with mafia. Must've been left out.
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@LikeMagic
Your facepalm comment in response to Water's inno statement seemed especially forced and lacking in town utility.
I don't read that as scum, I've played with drafter for long enough to know he's a vintage memer.
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@ILikePie5
Are y’all voting Bullish to lynch or for a full claim?
Lynch. If his claim somehow justifies his behavior I'd probably re-consider.
Just noticed the Elf on the Shelf claim. A little wonky, especially given that the tracker role is a strange fit. Plausible, but not obvious.
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@LikeMagic
It is worth highlighting that Speed is trying to misrepresent and discredit the reads of one of the two players he should feel comfortable working with and trusting the reads from.
I mean I pretty much said the same thing as speed did in regards to the whiteflame read, maybe just a little nicer. I don't think he is mis-representing you, I think the read on whiteflame objectively demonstrates you aren't used to his playstyle. I am not saying he is town, but if you were to convince me he was scum it would need to be with different reasons than the ones offered.
Everyone agrees I am more likely town than not based on my claim and behavior frankly. Yet Speed's big contribution is dismissing one of the other "known" townies and trying to make people not listen to them.
I am not dismissing you as town btw, I am still weary of your claim. You just aren't the focus right now. Not sure "everyone" thinks you are town either.
UNVOTE
Supa u absolute tard. How can u say this:
I think it's better to VTNL since there is no clear lynch
WHILE WATER HAS BEEN SITTING ON 4/7 FOR HALF THE DAYPHASE?!!!?
AND NOT ONLY THAT YOU SCUM READ WATER!?!?!?
Scum reads are That1, whiteflame, WaterPhoenix.
????????????????????????????????
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@LikeMagic
Any discussion I have had on the topic was really directed at any argument that it was scummy for Bullish to point this out as a potential scum tell, especially since Bullish has historically been pretty "bullish" in his scum hunting as town in games I played with him.
In what circumstance would you ever scum read bullish? Why is he town right now? I just don't see it.
I am generally skeptical of theme analysis in forum games. It is very hard to get right. There is a lot of mod psych., plus there are so many variations of what could be scum v. town. In a game where we know that there are fake claims, I find it even less useful and more likely to be a waist of time. Danielle has historically been opposed to characters being capable of breaking the game, so it's more likely in my mind that scum either all have fake character claims or have enough of them to fake claim for whichever scum was unlucky enough to not get one.
The only real theme analysis I'd put into this is "Does this role justification make sense with this character" On a basis of my own characters role and justification making sense. It won't be enough to town clear someone completely who has behaved scummily, as scum really can be clever sometimes, but it will be something to consider while discussing them. Behavior will still ultimately be the ruling factor I'd hope.
Also, I totally missed your avatar thing. Weird character if you're townie. Interesting, you're one of my biggest town reads so I am not sure what to make of this. I never saw the movie so, I am not sure if the character is evil/bad, I just assume he is.
You should watch the movie sometime. Jack Skellington is definitely not bad. The premise of the movie is that they discover other holidays than Halloween exist, and Jack is especially excited about christmas, and tries to introduce it to halloweentown.
Elf on the shelf is an off claim btw, every claim right now has been a movie character. I am also a movie character. Elf on the shelf is a book character. Elf on the shelf is also scummy af cause it's a fucking surveillance state metaphor.
I don't believe WP would ever deceptively claim Elf on a Shelf as TRACKER in DP1. Super high risk claim in DP1. That makes WP the top night target. I hope TOWN is pointing their binoculars accordingly.
So apparently both whiteflame and supa scum read Water, but would rather waste today's lynch on a VTNL.
oromagi Cindy Lou Who INNOCENT CHILD
TOWN
WaterPhoenix Elf on a Shelf TRACKER
Pie
MisterChris
SCUM
Speedrace
Vote Count
Water (Pie, Speed, Bullish) -- 3/7 votes
No Lynch (whiteflame, Supa) -- 2/7 votes
Bullish (Lunatic, that1user, Water) -- 3/7 votes
whiteflame (LikeMagic) -- 1/7 votes
Two hours left in the day phase.
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@Bullish
Elf on the shelf is an off claim btw, every claim right now has been a movie character. I am also a movie character. Elf on the shelf is a book character. Elf on the shelf is also scummy af cause it's a fucking surveillance state metaphor.
hmmmm
CIndy Lou Who is a TV character first.
Santa Clause is the name of a movie, not a character.
Anybody else want to weigh in on characters? Are we mostly movie and TV characters are there other seasonal aspects?
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@oromagi
CIndy Lou Who is a TV character first.
Actually u right, Cindy Lou Who is a book character first.
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@oromagi
Anybody else want to weigh in on characters? Are we mostly movie and TV characters are there other seasonal aspects?
Jack Skellington is a movie character, so yeah im in that camp.