Evidence For The Existence of God

Author: Goldtop

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@3RU7AL
What is your standard of "truth"?

How do you determine if someone is lying when they describe something unverifiable, like for example, a dream?

I don't rely on what people testify to. I learn from application and observation and I examine evidence which includes testimonials, observations. What I am saying is....that testimonial experience is included as evidence. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar, and don't know what evidence consists of. 

Goldtop
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Learn how to read, then get back to me. 
You love to deny facts, it's amazing. Testimonies are not evidence for the existence of something, if it were, then Unicorns, Leprechauns, Fairies and Pixies would all exist because someone said so. Hard evidence is required for the existence of something, you need to learn that.

Its the same with Consciousness, you deny the fact that it occurs as a result of the brain.

These are all well known facts that you deny. You try to convince others of your denials but they just laugh because it's so absurd.

Goldtop
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I don't rely on what people testify to.

It is called a testimony. You can label that testimony anything you want, but it is evidence.
And now, you just contradicted yourself. Lol.

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..that testimonial experience is included as evidence. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar, and don't know what evidence consists of. 
You are talking about yourself, you have no idea what evidence consists of and are lying about it.

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@Goldtop
Read that again. Here it is...
"I learn from application and observation and I examine evidence which includes testimonials, observations. What I am saying is....that testimonial experience is included as evidence. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar, and don't know what evidence consists of."
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@Goldtop
You are talking about yourself, you have no idea what evidence consists of and are lying about it.

So you are now claiming the definition of testimonials that I did not create is lying lol? no matter what you deny, testimonials will always be considered as evidence. You need to spend a little more time on your own language and stop trying to argue with me. If you can't follow your own language you have problems you need to face and address. I can't teach you to read. 
Goldtop
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So you are now claiming the definition of testimonials that I did not create is lying lol? no matter what you deny, testimonials will always be considered as evidence.
They are not evidence for the existence of something, they are only used in court as reference material to back up hard evidence. For some strange reason, you don't seem to understand this very simple concept.

You need to spend a little more time on your own language
I understand the language just fine, it's you who doesn't, which you have made amply apparent in this thread. There is tons of material about evidence, you should read up on it and educate yourself.

stop trying to argue with me
I'm not arguing, I'm pointing out your flawed understanding of the English language because you keep deceiving us with fabrications and lies.

I can't teach you to read. 
I know how to read just fine, it is you who doesn't understand the definitions of words, you have had this problem a very long time and many have pointed it out to you, yet you just go on saying the same fabrications and lies over and over.
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EVIDENCE-
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
something that furnishes proof : testimony
 broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.

TESTIMONY-
evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
 firsthand authentication of a fact : evidence
 an outward sign
 Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof.
a declaration of truth or fact
evidence testifying to something

Goldtop
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the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
something that furnishes proof : testimony
 broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
And there you have it, evidence is about facts, information, proof. What more do you need to understand that?
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TESTIMONY-
evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
 firsthand authentication of a fact : evidence
 an outward sign
 Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof.
a declaration of truth or fact
evidence testifying to something
As you can, it's exactly as I was explaining to you. Nothing in those definitions supports your claim.
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@secularmerlin

I've given you plenty of time to think about it and you never have gotten back to me on this point.
Sorry, I delete the posts every few days because they get too numerous. I must have missed this one


Your premises are as follows. 

number one that god is omniscient 

number two that god is omnipotent 

number three that god is omnipresent 

number four that god does not allow evil to exist in his presence 

number five that evil most definitely exists

According to premise number one evil cannot exist in god's presence without his knowledge.
True.

God has knowledge of evil.

God does not allow evil in His presence. What does that mean? It means that evil will be judged. We can't sin without answering to God. Evil will be dealt with and accounted for when each of us 'stand' before Him. 

What does being in His presence mean? It means a variety of things but a primary meaning is a close relationship with God. Being in His presence is also being answerable to God. In another sense, God's presence is everywhere. He sees/knows all things. In this sense, you cannot escape from His knowledge of your wrongful actions. In another sense, since God is holy, pure and sinless we as sinful beings hide from the majesty of His presence. 


According to premise number two evil cannot exist in god's presence without god allowing it to exist.

God permits sin for a purpose, and a while, that good will come out of it. Evil points to the good in the sense that it contrasts the two positions. Also sometimes when an evil is committed it brings out the good in others. They band together to console and comfort those who have suffered. 

According to premise number three any evil that exist must be in god's presence.

God transcends His creation. If you made a model world you would transcend that creation too. It (this world you created) depends on you creating it for its existence. Thus, you oversee the whole thing. It is within your presence.

In answer to your statement, evil actions and people who refuse to repent of their sins and seek God's provision for sin will be separated from an intimate, close relationship with Him for eternity. They will be judged for their sinful actions by this separation. God will not let those who do evil the honor and privilege of that close relationship with Him for eternity. 


If we accept the first three premises then either god allows evil to exist in his presence or no evil exists therefore premise four and premise five. are directly contradictory. 

At the minimum one of your premises must be untrue which do you believe is most likely false?

The reason evil exists is that God permitted evil for a purpose. Evil is disobedience to God. We see the results of our disobedience. In some places and at times in our lives sin around us and by us is hell on earth. We create misery for ourselves and others by our wrongful actions. You see it every day in and around you. 

God has allowed it also to demonstrate His love and goodness. He has provided a means to still enjoy His presence (close intimate fellowship with His) without sacrificing His justice.
disgusted
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@ET
Don't forget the god worlds. bwuahahahahahaha.
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@PGA2.0
What does being in His presence mean? It means a variety of things but a primary meaning is a close relationship with God. Being in His presence is also being answerable to God. In another sense, God's presence is everywhere. He sees/knows all things. In this sense, you cannot escape from His knowledge of your wrongful actions. In another sense, since God is holy, pure and sinless we as sinful beings hide from the majesty of His presence. 
How many contradictions can you fit in one small paragraph? Be proud, not in any smart, but proud.

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@PGA2.0
So god does a low evil in his presence? You are retracting your claim that god does not allow evil 8in his presence?
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@PGA2.0
Your last one almost sounds compatible with Islam.  If there is evil which can't be in the presence of God then God must be distant and we must submit to the truth and struggle to be with God.  It brings up complications with Christianity.  
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@Plisken
Good point.

Can a being be considered omnipotent if they are not omnipresent?