Technology Mafia - DP2

Author: Bullish
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#511
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@ILikePie5
Burden of proof is on you to prove a positive: That Two Town JOATs exist. Otherwise they don’t exist.
Your argument basically amounts to "No u".

You made a claim. Substantiate said claim.
#512
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@Speedrace
Another game with 2 JOAT's:


Royalpaladin, the mod literally said this: On top of this, there were two JOATs. I fully expected one of them to be lynched through a counterclaim.
#513
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I've found 2 games with two town joat's on basically my first like 10 clicks through the archive
#514
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I will probably make a more substantial post on this later, but more and more I think Pie is probably town, and Lunatic & Supa are also town.

That would leave Warren and Oromagi on that list. Oromagi seems town to me too.

Ergo, I think Warren is a pretty good scum candidate. 
#515
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Everyone who isn't Supa or Luna please read

Case on Luna:

1. He conveniently claims JOAT right after Supa but doesn't CC him
2. He claims his roles fit "like a puzzle piece" with Supa's, yet refuses to claim them
3. Says he has a bad character-role justification, despite Bullish saying that all characters and roles are linked
4. He claims that there are no other PRs besides the fact that a lot of people have yet to claim

Case on Supa:

1. He waits a whole day to claim his dreamer results. Last time Supa got an investigative result, he claimed the results INSTANTLY (when he copped Lunatic in the game Luna pretended to be a TP-lyncher in)
2. He claims a character that does NOT relate to technology
#516
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@Lunatic
I've found 2 games with two town joat's on basically my first like 10 clicks through the archive
Thx
#517
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@Speedrace
All fair points. I largely tuned out of your clash with Lunatic. I'll have to sit on those points for a while. What do you think of my theory in post 514?
#518
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@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Also I'm surprised no one mentioned this but Supa's variety of Dreamer is not what Dreamer is classically. Usually it says that AT LEAST ONE of the people in the dream are town OR it gives ONE person that is town.

So this is evidence of fake claiming or helps Intel out because of different varieties of roles. Last time Supa clamed the wrong type of role, though, he got lynched and was scum
#519
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@MisterChris
I will probably make a more substantial post on this later, but more and more I think Pie is probably town, and Lunatic & Supa are also town.
I think there is at least one scum among them

That would leave Warren and Oromagi on that list. Oromagi seems town to me too.
Same

Ergo, I think Warren is a pretty good scum candidate. 
I don't believe Supa's results, hence I don't think Warren is scum
#520
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@Speedrace
REFUTING SPEEDS LACKLUSTER CASE


Case on Luna:

1. He conveniently claims JOAT right after Supa but doesn't CC him
What's convienent about it? I didn't want to power role claim, and now I have. The claim has not served me in the slightest.

2. He claims his roles fit "like a puzzle piece" with Supa's, yet refuses to claim them
Your willing to take pie's word for him being able to prove himself next DP, but not mine that my role matches supa. Why does pie get special privilege? Why are you ignoring your previous scum read on him?

3. Says he has a bad character-role justification, despite Bullish saying that all characters and roles are linked
It's not bad, it doesn't exist. Take it up with bullish. As scum I am definitely capable of making a believable justification.

4. He claims that there are no other PRs besides the fact that a lot of people have yet to claim
I invite them to claim a power role. It will be proved that they are wrong one way or the other, if I get mislynched you will see. Or if you guys believe me and lynch in the dreamer results you will also see.

Case on Supa:

1. He waits a whole day to claim his dreamer results. Last time Supa got an investigative result, he claimed the results INSTANTLY (when he copped Lunatic in the game Luna pretended to be a TP-lyncher in)

Pie and warren were the topic of the day's lynch from the beginning, why out if he doesn't have to?

2. He claims a character that does NOT relate to technology
False, techological concepts relates to technology, the world technological is in the damn name. The cloud is technically a concept too.
#521
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2. He claims a character that does NOT relate to technology
False, techological concepts relates to technology, the world technological is in the damn name. The cloud is technically a concept too.
SUPA'S ROLE IS A CONCEPT. CONCEPTS ARE ALLOWED, YES. BUT IT IS AN ECONOMICAL CONCEPT, NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL ONE. LITERALLY EVERY SOURCE EVER CONFIRMS THIS AND WE HAVE YET TO SEE ANYONE PROVIDE A SOURCE SAYING IT IS A TECHNOLOGICAL CONCEPT. STOP CALLING IT SOMETHING IT IS NOT.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
#522
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@MisterChris
I will probably make a more substantial post on this later, but more and more I think Pie is probably town, and Lunatic & Supa are also town.

That would leave Warren and Oromagi on that list. Oromagi seems town to me too.

Ergo, I think Warren is a pretty good scum candidate. 

I am not opposed to lynching warren, I am 100% lynching in the dreamer results this phase. But I think getting a claim from pie would be a huge step in helping us make a decision. Pie has been implicated by results and behavior, and refuses to claim. I have publicly said I will claim my abilities if pie claims, even  though I think it's kind of dumb and the root of people's suspicion doesn't have anything to do with the abilities. That said, we can decide if we believe pie's role, and if we do, we focus on either oro or warren. 
#523
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@Lunatic
Case on Supa:

1. He waits a whole day to claim his dreamer results. Last time Supa got an investigative result, he claimed the results INSTANTLY (when he copped Lunatic in the game Luna pretended to be a TP-lyncher in)
Pie and warren were the topic of the day's lynch from the beginning, why out if he doesn't have to?
You were the topic of the day's lynch in that game and he still outed his results. Try again
#524
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@Speedrace

The word technology pops us multiple times in the wiki article. It definitely plays a role in technology as a concept.
#525
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@Speedrace
Case on Supa:

1. He waits a whole day to claim his dreamer results. Last time Supa got an investigative result, he claimed the results INSTANTLY (when he copped Lunatic in the game Luna pretended to be a TP-lyncher in)
Pie and warren were the topic of the day's lynch from the beginning, why out if he doesn't have to?
You were the topic of the day's lynch in that game and he still outed his results. Try again
What game?! I am talking about this game. Are you currently drunk, high or both?
#526
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@Speedrace
SUPA'S ROLE IS A CONCEPT. CONCEPTS ARE ALLOWED, YES. BUT IT IS AN ECONOMICAL CONCEPT, NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL ONE. LITERALLY EVERY SOURCE EVER CONFIRMS THIS AND WE HAVE YET TO SEE ANYONE PROVIDE A SOURCE SAYING IT IS A TECHNOLOGICAL CONCEPT. STOP CALLING IT SOMETHING IT IS NOT.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
I've gotta say I totally buy planned obsolescence as a tech concept.  In a field where storage and processing capacity doubles every 18 months, competitors are practically buying new tech before it is invented and trashing servers in excellent condition because they are so much weaker than their competitors.  Ross Perot built an entire tech empire based on the notion that the rapid depreciation relative to competition constituted a real depreciation that could be translated into tax write off thereby eliminating tax burdens for companies who own massive datacenters- GM, Oracle, Google, Amazon pay so little tax because they claim rapid obsolescence as write off (and bewildered taxmen allow it).
#527
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@Speedrace
Gotta say, after that whole controversy with Apple and their tech devices degrading over time, I buy it as a tech concept too. Just because something is an umbrella economic concept does not mean that it isn't practiced using tech concepts. How else are things going to degrade over time, if not having the technology designed to fail after a period of time? That's a tech concept, my guy
#528
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@warren42
Supa has dreamer results that one of you, pie or oromagi is scum. Who do you think it is if it's not you?
#529
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If we manage to lynch scum today, I am pretty sure speed is also mafia. His behavioral seems very similar to BAMF mafia. Lot's of logic leaps, very stubbornly pushes poor logic.
#530
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@Speedrace
It isn't your misunderstanding of what it is, not wanting to loosen your definition of what it is you being detrimental and anti town. 
#531
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@Lunatic

The word technology pops us multiple times in the wiki article. It definitely plays a role in technology as a concept.
No, because almost all of those are in the citations. Again, it's quite literally defined as an ECONOMIC concept. Technology and planned obsolescence aren't even in the same sentence in that source except once
#532
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@Lunatic
Since we have potentially 2 role blockers this game if Skittlez and Intel are telling the truth, I am going to ask. Do you get your ability back if you RB? Idk if I do so I want to ask you
#533
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@Vader
It isn't your misunderstanding of what it is, not wanting to loosen your definition of what it is you being detrimental and anti town. 
Exactly. He's got a narrative to push, and he's gonna push it hard and not back off of it, just like in BAMF mafia. He is literally pushing reads that are very similar. Most of his "gut" read on me is "LuNaTiC hAs GaMbItEd In ThE pAsT" which was the exact thing he pushed me for in BAMF mafia, knowing I was town. I think us focusing pie forced his hand, and he thinks mislynching us will be much easier. Notice how he also wanted to pressure pie earlier, but now has no worries about him whatsoever. He's totally willing to buy that pie can confirm himself tomorrow but absolutely won't buy it from me. We've forced his hand. This is the definition of speed as scum.

Regardless, we still need to lynch pie first.
#534
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@MisterChris
Gotta say, after that whole controversy with Apple and their tech devices degrading over time, I buy it as a tech concept too. Just because something is an umbrella economic concept does not mean that it isn't practiced using tech concepts. How else are things going to degrade over time, if not having the technology designed to fail after a period of time? That's a tech concept, my guy
It could literally work with ANY product, not just technology

Even if this was the reason for the justification, this is literally not even in Supa's PM. Like????
#535
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@Vader
Since we have potentially 2 role blockers this game if Skittlez and Intel are telling the truth, I am going to ask. Do you get your ability back if you RB? Idk if I do so I want to ask you
I asked the mod, I will let you know when he answers.
#536
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@Lunatic
If we manage to lynch scum today, I am pretty sure speed is also mafia. His behavioral seems very similar to BAMF mafia. Lot's of logic leaps, very stubbornly pushes poor logic.
lol
#537
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@Speedrace
No, because almost all of those are in the citations. Again, it's quite literally defined as an ECONOMIC concept. Technology and planned obsolescence aren't even in the same sentence in that source except once
The wiki confirms what both oro and misterchris are saying, that it plays a huge role in technology. Your refusal to see it is beyond scummy.
#538
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@Speedrace
It isn't and you are objectively wrong 
#539
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@Lunatic
I asked too because I wasn't sure either, plus with my role in mind I thought I ask you as well
#540
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@Lunatic
The wiki confirms what both oro and misterchris are saying, that it plays a huge role in technology. Your refusal to see it is beyond scummy.
As I've said over and over and OVER again, SHOW ME A QUOTE. SHOW ME literally ANY source that confirms this. I will happily acquiesce when you do. Until you do, you have no right to tell me I'm wrong. And on a debate site no less. True shame