Evidence in a religious forum

Author: Tradesecret

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#61
secularmerlin
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@Dr.Franklin
god can not be evil by its nature of being morally perfect
So alot to unpack here for such a short post. I'd like to remind you that I don't really like using the word evil. It is a subjective and nonspecific term. That said this seems prescriptive rather than descriptive. That means if the Yahweh as described in the bible doesn't fit in with the prescriptive definition of morally perfect then he cannot be god.
#62
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@secularmerlin
ill direct your attention to the evil god challenge which started this type of debating of god being good or "evil"
#63
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@Dr.Franklin
Well i don't like the term evil but in my opinion he is certainly immoral. 
#64
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@secularmerlin
but again, can he?he does those things for good reasons like anybody does
#65
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@Dr.Franklin
I don't care what his reasons for condoning, commanding and committing genocide. I do not believe that can be justified. Especially not by claiming that the people who were killed were "bad" or "wicked" or "evil".
#66
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@secularmerlin
well its good no matter what
#67
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@Dr.Franklin
well its good no matter what
Genocide is good no matter what?
#68
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@secularmerlin
ill try to explain this the best i can

If God is the standard of what is morally perfect than his actions have to be morally perfect and when he floods the earth, it is for a good reason-cleanse the earth of sin and restart.
#69
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@Dr.Franklin
I do not accept any being that condones, commands or commits genocide as a good moral standard. Especially not if your best argument is "but he's good though".
#70
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@secularmerlin
but by definiton,its good
#71
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@Dr.Franklin
If your argument is that "god moves in mysterious ways" the best you can actually claim is that we are unable to assess the morality of the Yahweh then any argument on your part about the morality of said actions becomes necessarily an argument from ignorance. 
#72
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@secularmerlin
do you understand what I am trying to say, everything God does is in search of GOOD reasons like any "immoral" person
#73
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@Dr.Franklin
I understand that you are trying to get me to accept the "goodness" of a being who condones, commands and commits genocide axiomatically. I also understand that I am unable to do so since I am of the intractable belief that genocide is immoral. 

#74
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@secularmerlin
What do you think the bombing of Hiroshima was?

It was pending genocide of Hiroshimites. In other words, an indiscriminate bombing allowing for the potential for every single Hiroshimite to face extermination. Do you think that particular bombing was immoral?
#75
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@secularmerlin
Whether the bible is partly or completely fictional I am of the intractable opinion that genocide, the buying and selling of people as property and the convicting people of thought crime are all immoral. Does your opinion on these subjects really differ appreciably from mine?
Do you think that the 7 year voluntary servitude was immoral?

If so, do you feel that the volunteers should have gone straight to prison without an opportunity to work to pay off their debt?

Thought crime?

If your best friend told you they were unashamedly fantasizing over your spouse, what would your response be to that individual?
#76
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@RoderickSpode
What do you think the bombing of Hiroshima was?
Immoral. 
#77
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@RoderickSpode
Do you think that the 7 year voluntary servitude was immoral?
The question of the separate rules for hebrews versus non hebrews in this regard is immaterial. Non hebrews were held to a different standard. That is the standard under discussion. 
If your best friend told you they were unashamedly fantasizing over your spouse, what would your response be to that individual?
Probably not a rational one and probably dictated by the specifics of the situation. 
#78
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@secularmerlin
Can you say for certain that if the U.S. had not bombed Hiroshima that Japan would not have attacked us again?
#79
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@secularmerlin
it was morally right, it has to be
Why does it have to be?
Because God did it, I would think.


His thinking:
> God is just.
> God wiped out humanity in a flood.
-----------------------------------------------------
= The flood was just.

Your thinking:
> Wiping out humanity is wrong.
> God wiped out humanity in a flood.
-----------------------------------------------------
= God was wrong.


Your conclusion (whether God is good or bad, right or wrong) is already determined in his premise.
#80
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@secularmerlin
The reason I brought up the 7 year Israelite voluntary servitude is because it never gets addressed until it's mentioned as a retort. I have yet to hear someone say "The bible condones the owning of a human being........except in the case of Israelite voluntary servitude."

So are you saying that the Israelite 7 year pardon is an exception?

As far as your answer about your best friend fantasizing over your spouse. You may be saying something profound here, but at this point it looks like you're trying to dodge the question.

Are you saying that you might unjustly lash out at them?

#81
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@RoderickSpode
Can you say for certain that if the U.S. had not bombed Hiroshima that Japan would not have attacked us again?
Nope.
#82
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@Castin
Yes I know.

#83
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@RoderickSpode
The reason I brought up the 7 year Israelite voluntary servitude is because it never gets addressed until it's mentioned as a retort. I have yet to hear someone say "The bible condones the owning of a human being........except in the case of Israelite voluntary servitude."
The morality of indentured servitude, which I remain unconvinced of, is not the issue when we discuss owning people as property  buying and selling them as property and passing them down to your children as property. We can discuss indentured servitude next if you like but it is a separate issue. It is though on a side note immoral to have separate standards for different groups of people as this has a tendency to create second class citizens. 
Are you saying that you might unjustly lash out at them?
I might and that would be wrong of me. After all you have specifically said he did not act on these fantasies.
#84
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@secularmerlin
Jesus Christ Superstar is my favorite musical. Something you didn't know, BAM.

Why don't you guess my favorite song from the musical, Mr. Yes I Know.

Trick question, I don't have a favorite song because too many are fucking amazing.

The story of Job is my favorite in the OT. Something else you didn't know, BAM. I have you reeling now, oh ho ho.

Of course, nothing compares to our donkeys revelation about you. That was paradigm-shifting.
#85
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@Castin
Jesus Christ Superstar is my favorite musical. Something you didn't know, BAM.
That is a pretty good one but not my favorite. For me it is probably a tie between Popey staring Robin Williams in the titular role and Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny.
The story of Job is my favorite in the OT. Something else you didn't know, BAM. I have you reeling now, oh ho ho.
For me it is probably Elisha and the two bears. I laugh every time they call him baldy and his reaction is so deliciously over the top that it is nearly farcical. 
#86
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@secularmerlin
It's been forever since I've seen either of those two, should watch them again.

I didn't mean Job was my favorite in a ha-ha sense, though. I genuinely find it compelling, though probably not for the same reasons Jews and Christians do.
#87
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@Castin
Not really a fan of the book of Job. Not only does the Yahweh kill Job's children just to test Job he also completely misses the point of why that is an unacceptable thing to do as e evidenced by the fact that he considered replacement children to be  a suitable way to make up for killing the first ones. I understand it was an answer (one of many presented in the old testament) to the problem of suffering even arguably the best one since at least it isn't engaging in outright victim blaming but it isn't really a satisfying answer and it does basically excuse Job's abuser instead denying his right to even question his abuser.
#88
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@Tradesecret
I really doubt anyone has actually tried to argue that god is evil.

It is possible that people have said "I don't think any gods exist but if this one did I would think it is evil" but I really reeeeeally doubt anyone has ever said god is evil except as a shorthand for that idea.
#89
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I really doubt anyone has actually tried to argue that god is evil.

It is possible that people have said "I don't think any gods exist but if this one did I would think it is evil" but I really reeeeeally doubt anyone has ever said god is evil except as a shorthand for that idea.
Good point.
#90
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@secularmerlin
@Tradesecret
@Discipulus_Didicit




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secularmerlin, Discipulus_Didicit, 

Where in the hell have you two been?  With biblical truth, I have to promote that our Yahweh/Jesus/Spirit is one of the most EVIL gods of all times, where I have just learned to accept this biblical axiom as a TRUE Christian and just move on the best way that I can.  Besides, Yahweh/Jesus/Spirit CREATES EVIL in the first place, and of which we have seen throughout the scriptures where He has performed some of the mosts disgusting and horrific evil acts ever on record!


JESUS SAID:  "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

JESUS' INSPIRED WORDS SAID:  "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16). All things include Jesus creating evil as explicitly shown throughout the scriptures. 

Don't let the runaway from debate and Bible ignorant Tradescret pull the wool over your eyes and say anything different upon what Jesus' true MO is all about, of which in part, is an EVIL murderer of the innocents, especially of children!  


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