I am responsible..............

Author: sadolite

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#61
Death23
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Don't think that would pass the innocent until proven guilty and other rights,  it would totally work in every other country but not the u.s.  you don't balance rights like that, just privileges
If the crime is not wearing the mask in certain situations all you have to prove is that they didn't wear the mask in that situation. It could be prosecuted just as any other crime would be (e.g. not wearing a seat belt). I don't see much of a problem in that department.
#62
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
No one can tell if you are sick or not.
We have tests for COVID in the blood JUST like we have tests for alcohol in the blood. That statement is false.
so your argument is that we should be testing every american citizen every day to make sure we know who is infected? I would be totally fine with that. But I don't think it's realistic to do over 300 million blood tests per day. 

Also, if right wing people are going to cry this hard over wearing a piece of fabric, how hard do you think they would scream if you forced them to take a blood test?
#63
HistoryBuff
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'm not endangering other people's lives, unless you mean my driving, guess anyone who drives is technically endangering other people's lives.
you coming near anyone while not wearing a mask is endangering their life. You could be infected and you wouldn't necessarily know it. 

Covid is much deadlier than the flu. It therefore requires a much stronger response.
yeah I know, flu requires no response, I mean I've said that, what's to disagree about?
nothing at all if you are now agreeing that because covid is so much deadlier that masks are absolutely needed. 

because it's my right, my choice, my body, use whatever you like.
but it isn't. Because it doesn't only affect you. You are endangering everyone around you too. If the only downside was that you might get sick and die, then sure. I don't care if people want to risk their own life. But when you are risking the lives of everyone else, then society gets a say. 

I am more important to me than hundreds of thousands of lives
this is kind of sociopathic

I would not sacrifice myself to save hundreds of thousands of lives
no one is asking you to sacrifice yourself. They are asking you to wear a small piece of fabric to save hundreds of thousands of lives. you aren't giving up anything by wearing a mask. 
#64
Greyparrot
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you coming near anyone while not wearing a mask is endangering their life. 

Objectively false. Young children can't get the COVID. 20-40 year olds with no co-morbidities have a greater chance of dying from lightning than COVID alone.
#65
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Death23
If the crime is not wearing the mask in certain situations all you have to prove is that they didn't wear the mask in that situation. It could be prosecuted just as any other crime would be (e.g. not wearing a seat belt). I don't see much of a problem in that department.
well can't help ya I guess, it's been explained many times driving is not a right and you agree to follow the rules and regulations for the privilege of driving.
I can wear what I want because it falls under freedom of speech, which includes NOT wearing something demanded by the government.  My employer can have a dress code and if I choose to work for them I'm agreeing to follow their rules because I have the right to NOT work for them.

there's an exemption for people who have medical conditions with regards to masks right?  how do you square that circle?   I have a right to privacy, I don't have to answer any questions to law enforcement.  I'm innocent until proven guilty, etc etc

it's about health right, preventable deaths?  can we make a law if your b.m.i. is over a certain number you get arrested?  how about smoking?  how far should we go with this? 

Is there anything other than anecdotal evidence, conjecture and opinions about masks?

#66
Death23
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
#67
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
Objectively false. Young children can't get the COVID.
yes they can. where did you hear that?

20-40 year olds with no co-morbidities have a greater chance of dying from lightning than COVID alone.
even if i granted that was true, (which i'm guessing it isn't), so what? You have no idea who around you has underlying health conditions that could put them at risk. Alot of people do. So even if your questionable info were correct, you are still endangering people around you. 

When the method to prevent that danger is so ridiculously simple (just wearing a piece of fabric) why would you not do that? It doens't cost very much. It isn't going to harm you. It is a slight inconvenience that will save lives. 
#68
Discipulus_Didicit
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@sadolite
my house could be destroyed by a hurricane and thousands of people could be killed, what personal responsibility does each and every person in America have to prevent this. I see no difference in being told I have to do something to prevent a virus from spreading.
You see no difference between being asked to do something that is literally impossible versus something that is so easy a child could do it?

Time to cut down on the hallucinogenics bud. I know quarantine can be boring but seriously lay off.
#69
Greyparrot
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@HistoryBuff
Alot of people do. 
Then don't make the claim that walking around maskless puts everyone at risk. It doesn't put EVERYONE at any meaningful level of risk.
#70
Greyparrot
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@HistoryBuff
where did you hear that?

Not only are the infection rates to children under 10 negligible, but the transmission rates from young children to others are cosmically infinitesimally small.
#71
Death23
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Start reading at "III. Likelihood of success on the merits"

#72
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Death23
unfortunately I don't have time and I'm not going to try and do it on my phone, but I believe the courts have struck down laws making masks mandatory, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I heard that.
#73
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@HistoryBuff
You could be infected and you wouldn't necessarily know it. 
can you provide some legit evidence it can be transmitted from asymptomatic people?
nothing at all if you are now agreeing that because covid is so much deadlier that masks are absolutely needed. 
can you provide some legit evidence on the effectiveness of masks for asymptomatic people?



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#74
sadolite
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I challenge all the suedo science that says I can control the spread of a virus.  You roll over without so much as a fight. You literally are doing what hundreds of history books said you would do. You trade your rights and liberties for promises of safety and security.  History repeating itself right before my eyes.  Men born long before you or I knew these things and knew human nature.  "A man who gives up his freedoms and liberties in exchange for safety and security deserves neither" They knew, it's the oldest trick in the control the people and make them comply handbook. Now that the precedent has been set and it has been demonstrated how fucking easy it was all the powers that be have to do is concoct some bogus health crisis tell you the sky is falling and your all gonna die and you will roll over like a dog that wants his belly scratched.
#75
HistoryBuff
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
can you provide some legit evidence it can be transmitted from asymptomatic people?
here is an article about it the backlash from the medical community when the WHO incorrectly said it was "rare". It is hard to be certain, but something like 20% - 45% of cases could spread with the person showing no symptoms according to studies. 

"One recent paper estimated that 40 to 45% of cases might be asymptomatic, though others have pegged that figure at closer to 20% or even lower."

can you provide some legit evidence on the effectiveness of masks for asymptomatic people?
What sort of evidence would you like? Here is info from the CDC reccomending wearing masks. Here is info from John's Hopkins recommending wearing masks. 

basically, the saliva in your mouth (assuming you were infected) will carry the virus. Speaking, coughing, sneezing, yelling would all spray a little bit of this saliva into the air potentially spreading covid to anyone around you. The point of the mask is to keep these droplets from being sprayed into the air and reducing the ability of the virus to spread from person to person. 
#76
HistoryBuff
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@sadolite
I challenge all the suedo science that says I can control the spread of a virus. 
i'm not sure you understand what the words pseudo science mean (other than mis-spelling it). Masks prevent saliva from your mouth from being expelled when speaking, coughing, yelling, sneezing etc. Since this saliva carries covid, being around people and doing normal activities would spread covid. wearing a mask prevents your saliva from escaping and infecting people. It's really super simple. 

You trade your rights and liberties for promises of safety and security.
lol it is a little bit of cloth. you aren't sacrificing your 1st born. please tone down the theatrics. 


#77
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@HistoryBuff
 but something like 20% - 45% of cases could spread with the person showing no symptoms according to studies. 
how many actually have?  I've posted the study where zero have spread.
 CDC reccomending wearing masks.
John's Hopkins recommending wearing masks. 
I understand how the virus might be spread, however there is a thing called viral load, you need a certain number/amount to actually infect a person.  Again talking does not create that much nor does it float and or survive in the air that long.  These a are theories, guesses at best.




#78
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
An evaluation of 1286 close contacts of index cases in China found that infection rates in children were comparable with or slightly higher than in younger adults (aged 30-49 years) but were significantly lower than in older patients (aged ≥60 years).8 This finding suggests that children seem to have similar rates of becoming infected compared with middle-aged adults following close contact with a person infected with SARS-CoV-2. In contrast, a targeted screening approach in Iceland found SARS-CoV-2 in 6.7% of children younger than 10 years old (n = 564) compared with in 13.7% of people aged 10 years or older (n = 8635).
This is from your own source. It shows that children do get covid. They might get it at a lower rate than adults, but they still get it. So you have proven yourself to be wrong when you said " Young children can't get the COVID." they absolutely can. 

Then don't make the claim that walking around maskless puts everyone at risk. It doesn't put EVERYONE at any meaningful level of risk.
it does though. the virus can have serious health affects on virtually anyone. You could be the healthiest person in the world and corona could still hospitalize or kill you. Anyone who is exposed to corona is endangered. You wouldn't kill everyone you meet by spreading the virus, but you could kill anyone you meet. 
#79
Crocodile
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@sadolite
You mad lad. You don't get to decide the fate of others.
#80
HistoryBuff
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
how many actually have?  I've posted the study where zero have spread.
I'm sorry, maybe i'm misunderstanding your question. In the studies linked to, between 20% and 45% of cases were asymptomatically transmitting. Are you looking for total cases in the world? this sort of statistic is not possible to get. All we can get is the number of cases in a specific sample group. 

Could you please provide me with that study again? I looked back through your posts and didn't see it. 

I understand how the virus might be spread, however there is a thing called viral load, you need a certain number/amount to actually infect a person.  Again talking does not create that much nor does it float and or survive in the air that long.  These a are theories, guesses at best.
No, it is pretty much settled science. There is still debate about whether droplets that are aerosolized and stay in the air for hours can spread the virus as these droplets are very small. But there is no question that saliva from coughing, sneezing or speaking can spread the virus. 
#81
Greyparrot
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it does though. the virus can have serious health affects on virtually anyone. 
Not EVERYONE is going to be at any measurable risk.

There are objectively people with health conditions as well as old age that put them at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher risk than everyone else.

The health risks to children under 10 are absolutely negligible. Where are you getting this information?

You can easily protect at-risk people by quarantining those few at-risk people.
#82
Greyparrot
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@HistoryBuff
No, it is pretty much settled science.

You should never trust a source that states this. Especially with a novel virus with few data points.
#83
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
Not EVERYONE is going to be at any measurable risk.
yes they are. There are risks to every single person in the world. Some of them will be at higher risk than others, but everyone is at risk. 

The health risks to children under 10 are absolutely negligible. Where are you getting this information?\
from your own link. I just quoted it. 

You can easily protect at-risk people by quarantining those few at-risk people.
no you can't. 1) because the number of people with underlying health conditions is considerable. 
2) because those people need to interact with other people in order to survive
3) because literally everyone is at risk of serious medical issues when infected. with proper medical care most healthier people will survive. But the critical part is "proper medical care". Once the number of cases explodes and all the hospital beds are taken, now people cant get proper medical care and lots and lots of people die. 

You should never trust a source that states this.
are you attempting to deny that viruses can pass through saliva? 

Especially with a novel virus with few data points.
there are millions of cases and a number of studies done already. What exactly does "few data points" mean to you? Do we need a billion cases before studies become valid?
#84
Discipulus_Didicit
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@sadolite
You roll over without so much as a fight. You literally are doing what hundreds of history books said you would do. You trade your rights and liberties for promises of safety and security.  History repeating itself right before my eyes.  Men born long before you or I knew these things and knew human nature.  "A man who gives up his freedoms and liberties in exchange for safety and security deserves neither"
Lol that's a bit of an off-topic tangent but okay.

I would challenge your suedo [sic] science that says me occasionally wearing a mask when I feel like it leads to a totalitarian regime taking power.
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#85
sadolite
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@Discipulus_Didicit
UM no, it's exactly on topic, You want me to forgo and give up my civil liberties and constitutional rights for promises of security and safety from the corona virus.  I do not consent to closing my business and I do not consent to wearing a mask. I demand due process under the law, I demand that the govt show that I am a risk to anyone, I demand the govt show cause to shut my business. I am entitled to all of these things under the rule of law.  I do not loose my civil liberties and rights because there is a pandemic.

#86
Discipulus_Didicit
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@sadolite
UM no, it's exactly on topic,
Before you were saying "asking me to wear a mask sometimes is like asking me to stop a hurricane, both those things are impossible to do!" That is what I was responding to.
#87
Death23
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
unfortunately I don't have time and I'm not going to try and do it on my phone, but I believe the courts have struck down laws making masks mandatory, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I heard that.
You were talking about the interplay between federal constitutional rights and COVID-19 restrictions. Those issues are directly addressed by what I referenced. The answers are there, ready for you to read. If you don't want to read them I can only surmise that it's some form of information avoidance. It is true that some COVID-19 restrictions have been struck down, but I haven't seen that happen on federal constitutional grounds. From what I have seen when the COVID-19 orders get thrown out by courts it has been due to state-law issues, sometimes procedural problems.

#88
WaterPhoenix
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@sadolite
Just wear the damn mask so you don't commit manslaughter.
#89
Death23
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@sadolite
"A man who gives up his freedoms and liberties in exchange for safety and security deserves neither"
The real Ben Franklin quote is "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
#90
n8nrgmi
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people have a misguided idea of what the government has the power to do. in the founding days, they outlawed all kinds of stuff. gay sex, banned. if they wanted to say you can't wear the color orange, that flew too. they had laws for all kinds of stuff. i can sympathize with the idea that a govenor himself might not have the authority, but the states do have the authority. it was considered liberals run amok when the court said you can't ban gay sex. the presumption is that the state can do whatever the hell it wants. you get due process, but all that means is you get your day in court if you violate said law. due process doesn't mean they can't make the law. 

there's some quibbles with 'substantive due process', but again this is considered liberal ideas here.