Themeless Mafia 1 - Day Phase 1

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#391
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@Objectivity
He has not really done much to generate discussion so far outside of trying to bus me in the last page after he has faced intense pressure
Just so we're all clear this was in 328.  

Also if you edit a post it's a mod kill.  Realize that.  


#392
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I am increasingly willing to entertain a Ragnar/Objectivity scum team.  Not sold on this yet because I still think that this is clueless townie play, which is not scum indicative, but the harder I have to think to explain things away and the more often I have to do it the more willing I become to entertain the lynch because there comes a point where the scale between clueless townie and clueless scum tips in favor of clueless scum.  Independently of the foregoing in 328, Objectivity's posts are starting to look coordinated with Ragnar's.  Not sure if I am only seeing what I want to see though.  I will think more about this.
#393
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@coal
Kinda feels like you're tunneling Zaradi, just so you know.  I town read him and I still don't really understand why you're not town reading him other than that he wrote out a case against you.  
Interesting you think I am "tunneling" him rather than the other way around. I mean I just said he was the least strong scum read out of the three. And if you are accusing me of OMGUS, that is also wrong. My scum read on zaradi is that his behavior seemed contrived from the get go (my very first read mentioned this, though you somehow mis-construed it for a full on town read). Then when I challenged him to elaborate, he doubled down and focused on just me. Seemed like he was more interested in saying "fvck TUF for daring to say my reads are contrived" and the full case (built on mis-representations of reality and lack of reading) was essentially to fulfill his confirmation bias of having already stated he thought I was scummy and not wanting to back down from it. His intentions don't seem like he's open minded to hunting scum, and his vision is narrow. 
#394
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@Lunatic
Interesting you think I am "tunneling" him rather than the other way around.
I didn't say Zaradi wasn't tunneling you.  
#395
Zaradi
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@coal
What's your thoughts on 333? My current solve is Objectivity/Lunatic.
#396
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Specifically 333 doesn't seem like a genuine desire to sort Objectivity but rather just to fight, which is super scum-motivated and decidedly anti-town.
#397
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@Lunatic
Interesting you think I am "tunneling" him rather than the other way around. I mean I just said he was the least strong scum read out of the three. And if you are accusing me of OMGUS, that is also wrong. My scum read on zaradi is that his behavior seemed contrived from the get go (my very first read mentioned this, though you somehow mis-construed it for a full on town read). Then when I challenged him to elaborate, he doubled down and focused on just me. Seemed like he was more interested in saying "fvck TUF for daring to say my reads are contrived" and the full case (built on mis-representations of reality and lack of reading) was essentially to fulfill his confirmation bias of having already stated he thought I was scummy and not wanting to back down from it. His intentions don't seem like he's open minded to hunting scum, and his vision is narrow. 
Also realize I am not scum reading you at the moment.  I am not fully committed to a town read, but you are looking more consistently defensive from a town perspective rather than defensive as scum from a town perspective based on your activity after I initially VTL'd you following Zaradi's case made against you.  It is looking to me like you and Zaradi are now potentially both town. 
#398
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@Zaradi
What's your thoughts on 333? My current solve is Objectivity/Lunatic.
What's humorous about that, is that Objectivity is my biggest scum read lol and I am his. Not that I'm past bussing as scum, but that would be a bit reckless of us in this set up.
#399
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Also pretty sure Ragnar is just bad/clueless townie. I dont say that to flame
#400
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@coal
did not realize that but i won't edit again
#401
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@Zaradi
I think if Objectivity was on the scum team with TUF we would not have seen a post like 328.   The team I think is most viable at the moment is Ragnar/Objectivity.  
#402
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@coal
I think if Objectivity was on the scum team with TUF we would not have seen a post like 328.
Elaborate. If anything I think 328 and 333 is strong evidence toward Objectivity/Lunatic
#403
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If both potential scum teams include me, why not lynch me first?  If you think I am definitely scum since you are including me on both scum teams, I am the safest lynch.  
#404
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@Zaradi
If TUF was Adam's scum partner I would expect that Adam would be being coached on what to post in a way that was not so self-evidently an issue.   
#405
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According to the logic of YY, Zaradi, and TUF, I should be the lynch for DP1 since I am the safest bet.  TUF thinks its either me and zaradi or me and ragnar.  YY thinks its me and ragnar.  Zaradi thinks its me and TUF.  I am on all four of those lists.  Just lynch me then if that's what you think.
#406
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@Objectivity
If both potential scum teams include me, why not lynch me first?
Are you volunteering to be lynched? 
#407
Zaradi
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@coal
If TUF was Adam's scum partner I would expect that Adam would be being coached
Does Lunatic do this as scum? I don't remember anything about Lunatic's scumplay 
#408
Zaradi
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@Objectivity
According to the logic of YY, Zaradi, and TUF, I should be the lynch for DP1 since I am the safest bet. TUF thinks its either me and zaradi or me and ragnar. YY thinks its me and ragnar. Zaradi thinks its me and TUF. I am on all four of those lists. Just lynch me then if that's what you think.
So impatient
#409
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@coal
I'm not volunteering for anything, I am just saying that by the logic that you, zaradi, and TUF have I should be the first lynch, not Ragnar.   Then when that logic turns out to be wrong all I can hope is that the attention turns to one or two of you three and the other five remaining players hold you all accountable.
#410
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@Objectivity
Then when that logic turns out to be wrong all I can hope is that the attention turns to one or two of you three and the other five remaining players hold you all accountable.
Is town not allowed to be wrong?
#411
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@Objectivity
According to the logic of YY, Zaradi, and TUF, I should be the lynch for DP1 since I am the safest bet.  TUF thinks its either me and zaradi or me and ragnar.  YY thinks its me and ragnar.  Zaradi thinks its me and TUF.  I am on all four of those lists.  Just lynch me then if that's what you think.
I don't think lynching you yields as much information as lynching Ragnar would.  I also think Ragnar is more likely scum than that you are.  The scum could also be Airmax and you, or Airmax and Ragnar.   If we lynch you and you flip town that doesn't tell me who the other two are.  I don't see a way at this point at least how lynching you helps me figure out who the other scum is, because my scum read on you is conditional on Ragnar being scum; not the other way around.  

Likewise, you are posting and Ragnar is not.  You are posting and Airmax is not.  Regardless of whether you are a common denominator on possible scum teams, it is the team leader whose lynch will prove more useful.  

Moreover, if you are town then while I expect scum will be on the tail-end of your lynch, scum will be able to come up with several objectively good reasons why they VTL'd you so they can hide behind what is really nothing more than OMGUS reasoning for why they pushed a mislynch.  

So I see no real utility in lynching you at this point.  DP2, we will see.  DP1, the lynch is Ragnar.  
#412
Objectivity
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@Zaradi
Is town not allowed to be wrong?
Sure, town is allowed to be wrong.  But so far you three have tried to take the lead in this and when you push a mislynch against me I hope other people take the lead instead.
#413
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@Objectivity
I'm not volunteering for anything, I am just saying that by the logic that you, zaradi, and TUF have I should be the first lynch, not Ragnar. 
I am just going to note that this is exactly what I would expect you to do as town or scum while cornered and this is further reason why lynching you today is not helpful for me.
#414
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@Zaradi
Does Lunatic do this as scum? I don't remember anything about Lunatic's scumplay 
No but I think that earlier in the game it was obvious enough that Objectivity maybe needed some coaching in how to play that TUF would have taken the initiative.  The alternative world where TUF just allows Adam to go about wetting the bed like this seems really unlikely to me.  
#415
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@coal
I am thinking Ragnar might flip town based on remaining noncommittal on his read of me despite being pressed by TUF.  As I said above, he could have taken the focus off him and took the easy way out by agreeing with TUF that I am scummy and possibly avoided a lynch on DP1.  Obviously if he flips scum though you are going to take this as me scum buddying with him so I guess I am putting my little bit of remaining credibility on the line here.  Either way that is what I think.
#416
Zaradi
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@coal
Convince me on scum!Ragnar
#417
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@coal
I'm not saying it because I am backed in to a corner, I am saying it because I still win with town even if I am lynched (I think thats how this works?), so I hope that my mislynch would at least vindicate what I have been saying and town doesn't go on to make the mistake of following your/TUF's/zaradi's lead and mislynching ragnar next.
#418
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@coal
If we lynch ragnar and he flips town what is your next move?
#419
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@Zaradi
If we lynch me and I flip town what is your next move?

 If we lynch lunatic and he flips town what is your next move?
#420
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@Lunatic
If we lynch me and I flip town what is your next move?