Colin Kapernick: A F**king Coward

Author: Vader

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#61
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@Nemiroff
The anthem has nothing to do with the military. 
Does the flag have anything to do with the military? If so, why doesn't the anthem have the same links?

If not, why does the American military carry the flag on it's uniforms and equipment? Why do military personnel play the anthem at official functions? Every nations anthem has something to do wit their military.

CK is a snowflake too caught up in PC groupthink to be grateful for the privilege afforded him by his great nation. No one wants him now because he was disrespectful. He should go sit down. We will watch player with more talent and more respect.
#62
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@ethang5
You have proven that our military represents our flag.
You have not proven that the flag represents our military.
Our military defends the ideals of our nation.
The ideal of our nation are not the military.
Why do you think fascist dictators are the ones that tend to have military parades and not democratic societies?

The military has little to do with internal politics. He is protesting internal politics. Internal politics, like police, and courts, are also a major part of the flag. This is a distraction.
#63
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@Nemiroff
You have proven that our military represents our flag.
I said nothing about representation.

You have not proven that the flag represents our military.
Nor did I intend to. The comment I was responding to was, "The anthem has nothing to do with the military." That comment is incorrect.

Our military defends the ideals of our nation. The ideal of our nation are not the military.
And none of this is pertinent to our discussion.

Why do you think fascist dictators are the ones that tend to have military parades and not democratic societies?
Is France a democratic society?

The military has little to do with internal politics. He is protesting internal politics. Internal politics, like police, and courts, are also a major part of the flag. This is a distraction.
Eh. CK was disrespectful. The swath of people offended by his behavior is evidence his behavior was hurtful. He should have protested in a none disrespectful way. But he freely chose to do so. Repeatedly. He exercised his right to protest, now he is suffering the consequences of doing so. He should quit whining and go sit down. 
#64
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@Vader
@CaptainSceptic
I don't think he's a coward. He sacrificed his career for his cause.

However. I find the cause to be utter BS, as it is all based off of anecdotal evidence, where even then, not all supposed cases are actual examples of police brutality. There are still cases of police brutality, but statistically they are unlikely and officers who are willing to brutalize a suspect are also rare. Consider that there were 4 officers in the George Floyd case out of 800 (0.5%) full time officers in Minneapolis. Consider that this is the first major incident in a long time in Minneapolis. Consider that out of about 53,500,000 people involved in an incident with the police in 2015, only 965 resulted in fatal shootings, and not all of those were brutality.
#65
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@Mharman
I don't think he's a coward. He sacrificed his career for his cause.
"Sacrificed"? That's a generous term considering his actions. His opting out of his contract with the 49ers fails to get mentioned, as well as his offer to join the Baltimore Ravens. He rejected the offer because he wanted a starting position despite his being on the back end of his career. And then, even after being invited to a workout where numerous NFL team scouts would be located, he decided to have a "private" workout which ironically hosted many members of the sports media. He didn't "sacrifice" much. I'm sure he gets paid more by NIKE now than he would have playing football.



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#66
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@Athias
He wants to be a martyr more than a player, despite the fact he has had offers
#67
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@Vader
And Nessa and NIKE are the ones plugging that battery in his back.
#68
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@Athias
Dang, that's a fair point.

8 days later

#69
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guys please respect the flag soldiers died for dominance in the middle east I mean our freedom and its not like black people have been discriminated against/killed under that flag so please respect it guys God bless america
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#70
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@Username
The soldiers also died so that we don't have to be Hitler's puppets. They also died so you are able to protest
#71
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@Vader
What, 80 years ago? 

How hard is it to understand that the people who actually got fucked by America get to protest America?

15 days later

#72
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@Username
No one has said protest should not happen. What we have said is that there is a right way and a wrong way to protest.

True protest means you love your country and feel it could be better. The kind of protest we see now is just America hating morons wanting to wild out. Protests that burn the country down instead of repairing it.

Protest all you want, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is idiocy.

The OP is right, Colin Kapernick is a f**king Coward.
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#73
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Going back on this post, I have a problem with Kapernick more than I have with kneeling itself. I still think it’s disrespectful, but with the whole situation occurring, it changed my mind a bit
#74
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@ethang5
Once again... Asking people to give credit to the country that fucked them over is just not feasible. You want people to respect your country? Have the country respect people. Not done yet in America. 

If a protest points the finger at actual issues that exist in our country and spreads it to a wider audience, and some people have to get triggered for that to happen then that is a worthy tradeoff by me. 
#75
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@Username
Asking people to give credit....
No one asked CK to give credit. He just didn't need to be disrespectful.

...that is a worthy tradeoff by me. 
You weren't the one doing the "trading".
#76
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@ethang5
No one asked CK to give credit. He just didn't need to be disrespectful.
Point stands... America does not respect it's Black Americans, so why do Black Americans have to respect America?

You weren't the one doing the "trading".
I never said I was.
























#77
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Point stands...
It's an opinion, and everybody has one.

America does not respect it's Black Americans, so why do Black Americans have to respect America?
I would dare say most Black Americans would not agree with you. And to the consternation of people like you, Black Americans have constantly proven you wrong.

You weren't the one doing the "trading".

I never said I was.
Then whether it's worth the tradeoff to you is immaterial.

The man is an entitled, prissy, disrespectful, brat. He will fade into obscurity the way all losers do. America, and those who love her, will remain.
#78
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@ethang5
I would dare say most Black Americans would not agree with you. And to the consternation of people like you, Black Americans have constantly proven you wrong.

I'll ignore the Ad Homs. 

I mean you can say what you want. Black Americans do not consistently prove me wrong. The incarceration and poverty rates of Black people are astronomical compared to other people. America is directly responsible for that. Republicans are responsible for nearly always ignoring systemic issues that exist in the Black Community and Democrats are responsible for giving lip service but also doing nothing in practice. 

Then whether it's worth the tradeoff to you is immaterial.

It is worth the tradeoff period. 

The man is an entitled, prissy, disrespectful, brat. He will fade into obscurity the way all losers do. America, and those who love her, will remain.

lol

#79
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I'll ignore the Ad Homs. 
It is reasonable policy to ignore what doesn't exist.

The incarceration and poverty rates of Black people are astronomical compared to other people. America is directly responsible for that. Republicans are responsible for nearly always ignoring systemic issues that exist in the Black Community and Democrats are responsible for giving lip service but also doing nothing in practice. 
These are your opinions about white Dems and Reps, not Blacks. African Americans themselves irked liberals by embracing Christianity, volunteering for war to defend America, registering to vote, and actively taking part in the country's social culture.

They irked conservatives by not lashing back at those who wanted to keep them 2nd class citizens, and refusing to give up conservative values just because white conservatives were slow on acceptance. Time and time again, they have proven both the angry black militant wrong, and the fawning white liberal wrong.

It is worth the tradeoff period.
"Worth" is always subjective.
#80
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@ethang5
It is reasonable policy to ignore what doesn't exist.

You assumed that I didn't like seeing black people be successful... I can only assume that that was because I'm a liberal. 

These are your opinions about white Dems and Reps, not Blacks. African Americans themselves irked liberals by embracing Christianity, volunteering for war to defend America, registering to vote, and actively taking part in the country's social culture.

They irked conservatives by not lashing back at those who wanted to keep them 2nd class citizens, and refusing to give up conservative values just because white conservatives were slow on acceptance. Time and time again, they have proven both the angry black militant wrong, and the fawning white liberal wrong.
Once again, say whatever you want but the statistics do not reflect your statements. And it's absurd to say that conservatism, an ideology intertwined with opposition to equality in favor of age-old hierarchies, were the ones marching for black people - that was the liberals and the leftists. Historically, the Communist Party was the only party consistently supporting the emancipation of black Americans. And I'm far from a communist - just acknowledging the historical trends. 

"Worth" is always subjective.

The vast majority of debates that go on on this site are subjective. That doesn't mean I can't state that something is true. 
#81
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You assumed that I didn't like seeing black people be successful... I can only assume that that was because I'm a liberal. 
Lie. You said Black Americans did not respect America. That is untrue. I told you that African Americans would, and have historically, disagreed with you. Nothing about "success", and no ad-hom. Do you need a safe space snowflake?

Once again, say whatever you want...
What I want to say is the truth, so I do. I agree with you that African Americans have been discriminated against, but it is not true that they therefore don't respect America. Black Americans ARE America. And they have demonstrated over and over throughout their history that they love and respect America.

Perhaps you mean that Black Americans have a cause to disrespect America, but if so, which people do not have cause in their past? All Americans are America, and America is indivisible, land and people.

Historically, the Communist Party was the only party consistently supporting the emancipation of black Americans.
Uh huh. Blacks did great under Stalin and Mao.

"Worth" is always subjective.

The vast majority of debates that go on on this site are subjective. That doesn't mean I can't state that something is true.
Sure. But nothing is true because you feel it is. You must logically demonstrate its truth. You said it was "worth" the tradeoff. It may have been "worth" it to you, but that doesn't make it true, that's just your opinion.

Malcolm X came singing the same militant, divisive song you're singing. Who killed him? Not whites. His own people. Put the armor down cat, you don't need it anymore. We are all equally Americans, with the same country goals.
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@ethang5
Lie. You said Black Americans did not respect America. That is untrue. I told you that African Americans would, and have historically, disagreed with you. Nothing about "success", and no ad-hom.
Oh I think I was looking at a different paragraph when I said that. Nvm. 

I didn't say that Black Americans don't respect America. Allow me to clarify, I'm sure plenty of them do. I said that they don't HAVE to, especially those who have been given the absolute worst that America has to offer. 

To be unequivocally clear, this goes for ANY group, whether it be black people, people in poverty, immigrants, Palestinians... They do not have to respect a country that more often than not does not respect them. 

Do you need a safe space snowflake?
lol

Perhaps you mean that Black Americans have a cause to disrespect America, but if so, which people do not have cause in their past?
"Their past". Yeah sure. Look at the poverty rates by race. Look at what's going on in those concentration camps at the border. Look at the convinction/sentencing disparities that exist in our criminal justice system. Look at the increasing wealth gap and low wealth mobility. Every person who is experiencing any of these things is getting completely fucked by America right now. 

Uh huh. Blacks did great under Stalin and Mao.

Black people were a tiny minority in both of these states. Your point is what?

I think you're failing to differentiate results from intentions. Communism probably won't improve the lives of black people, or any people. But leftists and liberals are the people who SUPPORTED LEGAL EQUALITY for people of color through the years. Equality is the historical antithesis of conservatism, an ideology that's only consistent moral philosophy is predicated around the support of heirarchy. 

I already explained it. The Colin Kaepernick thing contributed massively to awareness of issues concerning black people in America. That was the upside. It made some people mad. That was the downside. Clearly, raising awareness is more important than keeping right-wingers happy. 
#83
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Every person who is experiencing any of these things is getting completely fucked by America right now. 
I don't think that is always true. Some people just get screwed by other Americans, not America. Some people screw themselves and then blame America. And a few deserve to get screwed because of their evil behavior.

Black people were a tiny minority in both of these states. Your point is what?
That there is a reason why they were tiny minorities. What was the doctrine of official communist countries towards black people? If a tiny minority was ill treated, would a greater number fared better?

But leftists and liberals are the people who SUPPORTED LEGAL EQUALITY for people of color through the years.
Yet history shows that the most concrete advances were made under conservatives. For example, the first black Sanator was republican.

Equality is the historical antithesis of conservatism, an ideology that's only consistent moral philosophy is predicated around the support of heirarchy.
This is a liberal talking point that leftist parrot without critical thought. A great man once sasaid...

Equality of opportunity is freedom, equality of outcome is tyranny.

Conservatives want equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. And since I am not a liberal, you will have to tell me what is intrinsically wrong with heirarchy.
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@ethang5
I don't think that is always true. Some people just get screwed by other Americans, not America. Some people screw themselves and then blame America. And a few deserve to get screwed because of their evil behavior.

Black People were literally disallowed from living in certain neighborhoods, couldn't work at certain jobs, and couldn't go to good schools.  One day America said "sorry lol" and stopped making racist laws. That didn't remedy all, and we still see the effects of that discrimination today. 

That there is a reason why they were tiny minorities. What was the doctrine of official communist countries towards black people? If a tiny minority was ill treated, would a greater number fared better?

Lol dude like zero black people lived in Russia/China during the Russain Empire/Qing Dynasty too. I have no clue what the policies were towards black people. I DO know that the Soviets ended ethnic discrimination against Jews and the Pole of Settlement, the PRC made Affirmative Action policies for minorities, and Fidel Castro abolished legal segregation for Afro-Cubans.  Look at America, too. Why is "Black Lives Matter" considered a leftist/liberal concept? Why were  the leaders of the BLM foundation described as "trained Marxists"? 

Once again this communist country stuff isn't the point. We're looking at who SUPPORTED black people through the years, not who gave them the best results. 

Yet history shows that the most concrete advances were made under conservatives. For example, the first black Sanator was republican.

Republicans do not equal conservatives, ESPECIALLY not in the Reconstruction Era lol. Republicans then were some of the biggest progressives of their time. 

This is a liberal talking point that leftist parrot without critical thought. A great man once sasaid...

Equality of opportunity is freedom, equality of outcome is tyranny.

Conservatives want equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.
Conservatism always changes what it means to adjust to societal trends. Back in the 60s a Conservative would've told you "I don't hate black people, I just think that God intended us to be separate" or some other BS. Conservatives during the French revolution would tell you "I don't hate poor people, I just think that we need a King".  It's always marked by an opposition to progress, they just change the rhetoric. 

And since I am not a liberal, you will have to tell me what is intrinsically wrong with heirarchy.
I don't need to tell you that. Heirarchy and equality have historically run in opposition to each other, and most historical events can be seen through that lense. Conservatives support the former, liberals/leftists support the latter (almost always, just in case you want to give one counterexample that you think will destroy my whole point) The fact that even now you see so much value/necessity in heirarchy and yet claim that conservatives were the ones fighting against it is absurd to me. 
#85
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Black People were literally disallowed....
Our disagreement is not about whether blacks were discriminated against, but about whether they disrespect America.

I have no clue what the policies were towards black people.
Then you aren't qualified to speak on the matter.

Why is "Black Lives Matter" considered a leftist/liberal concept? Why were  the leaders of the BLM foundation described as "trained Marxists"? 
BLM is not FOR the advancement of Black people. It never has been. It's to keep them poor, angry, and in the fold of the democratic/socialist/communist party.

We're looking at who SUPPORTED black people through the years, not who gave them the best results.
It NOT been democratic/socialist/communist party.

Republicans then were some of the biggest progressives of their time. 
I rest my case.

Conservatism always changes what it means to adjust to societal trends.
As it is supposed to.

Back in the 60s a Conservative would've told you "I don't hate black people, I just think that God intended us to be separate" or some other BS. 
Nonsense. I was alive in the 60's, and even back then, racist was not synonymous with conservative.

Conservatives during the French revolution would tell you "I don't hate poor people, I just think that we need a King".  It's always marked by an opposition to progress, they just change the rhetoric. 

What you call "progress". What makes your idea of "progress" better? Your progress has brought us mass murder of babies, molesting priests, and children killing children in schools. Liberals think all progress is good. Conservatives know that some "progress" is actually steps backwards.

I don't need to tell you that.
OK then. Forgave me if I don't think your assumption that hierarchies are intrinsically bad is worth accepting.

Heirarchy and equality have historically run in opposition to each other,
This comment means nothing. Your terms hierachy and equality are not defined. And equality is not always good.

and most historical events can be seen through that lense.
Historical events can be seen through any lens. Your lens distorts.

Conservatives support the former, liberals/leftists support the latter (almost always, just in case you want to give one counterexample that you think will destroy my whole point) 
Your point is not only untrue, it's nonsensical. You've simply nebulously defined some concept you call "equality" and then said liberals are for it. The funding fathers of America were conservatives, and risked their lives for freedom. You've been attending too many left wing college meetings.

The fact that even now you see so much value/necessity in heirarchy..
You have no idea how much value I see. All I did was ask you why was hierarchy always bad. You have assumed I see "so much value and necessity" in it because your position is emotional, not logical. When did I mention necessity?

...and yet claim that conservatives were the ones fighting against it is absurd to me. 
Because "hierarchy" is your leftist code word. I have no clue what it means to you. You refused to tell me what you found objectionable about hierarchy. And I am under no obligation to accept your private definition of it, whatever it is.

Like most young progressives, you seem to have gotten your history from a cartoon. You probably just need the perspective experience brings.

BTW, are you African American?
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@ethang5
Our disagreement is not about whether blacks were discriminated against, but about whether they disrespect America.

The point is that you reap what you sow. America disrespects people, people disrespect America. 

Look, I'm just gonna make this position clear. Conservatism, as a movement, is supportive or accepting of hierarchy.  Leftism/liberalism (depending on how you define liberalism) is not, or at least accepts less heirarchy.

As time goes forward, the world spins on a progressive axis. There used to be a ton of legal race, class, gender, etc. barriers that existed all over the world. These barriers were created to enforce heirarchies. Now those legal barriers are diminishing all across the earth but especially in first-world countries. 

Leftists and liberals were the ones championing these changes in opposition to heirarchy. The people who revolted against monarchy and for democracy during the enlightenment and the French revolution were liberals and they are called that by historians for this very reason. Leftists went even further and often opposed ALL constraints between races and classes. Conservatives are called conservatives because they wanted to conserve hierarchy and traditional social structures. 

The social structures that conservatives wanted to keep were based on religion, class, and yes, often race. Social institutions like slavery and segregation became normal and traditional, and thus conservatives opposed changes to them. 

This is not to say that modern conservatives are racist; this is of course not neccesarily true. But it is undoubtedly true to say that the segregationists and supporters of slavery were the ideological forefathers of modern conservatism that were swept away by the force of progressivism. Thus your claim that Conservatives were the ones supporting the civil rights movement is utterly absurd. 
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@ethang5
You've been attending too many left wing college meetings.

Like most young progressives, you seem to have gotten your history from a cartoon. You probably just need the perspective experience brings.
What the hell is this? I thought you weren't doing Ad Homs? Lol
BTW, are you African American?

No. 
#88
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What the hell is this? I thought you weren't doing Ad Homs? Lol
If you thought that was ad hom, it's no wonder people call liberal snowflakes.

Your entire worldview of political liberalism and conservatism is immature and simplistic. I will leave you to that, you will mature.

BTW, are you African American?

No. 
Then you're a very passionate white liberal. I like the cut of your jib. You are totally wrong, but you kept your head and held your own. God speed to ya.
#89
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He does something he thinks is confortable and no one else is there to judge him. Had it be public criticism then I might hold a different view but if he did something that he thinks is respectful and no one else who has the job to judge him thinks is disrespectful, then he is not disrespectful.

As well we should stay fit so fat women are bad and should stay skinnier no matter what she believes. That is the same logic. It is also wrong.