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@Mopac
My argument is older than any of these languages, theophobe.
So was Latin, but it's dead now, too.
Omniscience and Free Will Coexistence
Posts
Total:
166
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@Mopac
That's not my argument, but you don't really care about what I have to say.
I think the problem is not what you have to say, it's that you're not saying anything.
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@Mopac
Your argument is that an English language convention defines your god, that convention did not exist before language, I mean really.
"He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."
Everything has been determined, everything is known, everything is finished in The Ultimate Reality. That is what I believe.
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@Mopac
Everything has been determined, everything is known, everything is finished in The Ultimate Reality. That is what I believe.
Yet, you can no more demonstrate that any more than I can demonstrate Leprechauns riding Unicorns in the Kentucky Derby.
Believe whatever you want, it's meaningless and pointless nonsense.
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@Goldtop
To you
I can't jump to the moon and back, therefore free will is nonsense. Clearly there are limitations on my will.
And I go a step further, that I don't defy physics by existing.
Free will is an illusion.
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@Mopac
The will is the capacity to decide and have the intention to do something. Just because the laws of physics don't allow you to do whatever, no matter how ridiculous, you wanting to do so doesn't exclude the will to do so, that is free to use at any time.I can't jump to the moon and back, therefore free will is nonsense
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@Mopac
You mean, everyone other than you.To you
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@Mhykiel
Quantum waveforms collapse into a superposition when observed. Quantum waveforms exist uncolapsed ergo some of them have not been observed ergo nothing has observed everything ergo nothing is omniscient. If our understanding of quantum theory reflects reality then omniscience is logically impossible.
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@Goldtop
How much of your will is dictated by biology? By environment? By present or past experience?
I see a lot of causal forces here.
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@Mopac
My will is dictated by my mind, like everyone else.
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@Mopac
I see a lot of causal forces here.
You see a great deal of things that simply aren't there.
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@Goldtop
Is your mind not subject to causality?
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@secularmerlin
Not able to answer that one, too vague.
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@Goldtop
I was quite specific. Is your m8nd subject to cause and effect or not?
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@secularmerlin
Cause and effect of what?
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@Goldtop
Cause and effect in general. Is your mind subject to the effects of any event (cause)?
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@secularmerlin
Actually the experiment remarks on this collapse as being relative to the information the observer has determined by the entanglements the observer is part of.
Plus collapse of the wave function is not binary. Partial collapse can occur and experiments using films have been able to skew results.
The take away is that to one observer a collapse of wave system has occured while to another with an entangled perspective can still see it as indeterminate.
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@Mhykiel
Citation please.
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@secularmerlin
What kind of event?
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@secularmerlin
A good read downloadable here.
My citation saying what I have said is the 2nd to last paragraph. Summarized as such in last paragraph...
In summary, by running our experiment in two different modes (“observer” and “super-observer” mode) we have experimentally shown how the same energy-entangled Hamiltonian eigenstate can be perceived as evolving by the internal observers that test the correlations between a clock subsystem and the rest whereas it is static for the superobserver that tests its global properties. Our experiment is a practical implementation of the PaW mechanisms but, obviously, it cannot discriminate between these and other proposed solutions for the problem of time
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@Mhykiel
Thank you I will check that out when I have time and if I have any questions I'll get back to you.
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@Goldtop
Any event ever in any capacity.
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@secularmerlin
Look forward to it.
I also would like to hear what you think of the 'delayed choice quantum erasure' experiments.
I think it suggests a way in which decoherence can manifest again due to loss of data.
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@Mhykiel
So the take away is that while we may observe a waveform a different observer (say an omniscient one) would be able to observe a particle in a superposition.
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@secularmerlin
The super observer should have a higher fidelity of seeing which path a particle took. This is due to more information being available to them and completing the equations as they due in a normal measurement causes wave function collapse.
At least that is how I understand it.
Again good searches of delayed choice experiment and other erasure experiments might give you a different insight.
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@Mhykiel
As an omniscient being wouldn't you know what course any particles would take before they moved?
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@secularmerlin
Well that would be another interesting discussion. What would time be like to the 'super observer'?
While the 'SO' may have it's own time line.. before, present, future.. it may experience the normal observer's time line as a static one piece representation. Like a piece of glass with slices in it.
Dipping into the theological for a second.. Saint Augustine (a classical philosopher and good read no matter what) answered the bbc question ''what was before God created the universe?'' His arguments actually smack of relativity on some points.. but I digress he argued 'before' is part of time and God made time when he made the universe therefore 'before' is mute nonsensical.
Am I understanding you correctly?
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@Mhykiel
I am more concerned with future than past. Wouldn't an omniscient being be able to predict future events with one hundred percent accuracy?