Bloodline Day Phase 2

Author: Lunatic

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#241
Buddamoose
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drafterman +vaarka/grey

END OF DISCUSSION THANK ME LATER

Not end of discussion. Why? Nobodies going to listen to you unless you actually provide sound reasoning. And disgenuine misrepresentations of things don't count. They only make you look scummy.


#242
RationalMadman
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@Buddamoose
listen to me, the script of the show and the quality of acting are in depth, the storyline is not relative to most shows of its calibre.

Its subpar storyline integrity means i'm able to tic tac toe it and work out who links to who without watching it from clues
#243
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@Buddamoose
but the story-line matters, the script does not

#244
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YES AND IF I CARED ABOUT THE SCRIPT I'D WATCH THE SHOW KID

So basically, you care about the theme, yet you don't care about the script, and you don't care about the story(because the show is not storyline heavy). So why the overt focus on theme to begin with? 

Again, this is exactly the type of stuff that makes you look scummy 

#245
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Its subpar storyline integrity means i'm able to tic tac toe it and work out who links to who without watching it from clues

Ok so if it's so easy I invite you yet again to illustrate this as it should be easily illustratable. And easily sourcable as you have claimed to not have seen the show but for one episode. Therefore you have researched this and can point people to the sources you are using. 

Again, do so. 

#246
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@Buddamoose
you found the sources fo the sheriff man
#247
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It's funny though, because you posting those quotes earlier would sure make it seem you actually thought the script was serious. Lol it's funny watching you flip flop on something once you got caught BS'ing. 

Quotes that were fished out of context, but nonetheless, somebody who thinks script and story are two separate things is liable to post quotes thinking that's what a script is about. When no, scripts detail pretty much everything. Not just conversations and speech. If story is important, then scripts are consequentially extremely important as they detail near every story element and actually give insight, for example, specific emotions a character is feeling in a scene as a hint to how the actor/acctress should be acting. 
#248
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I found no such sources for Aguirre. Aguirre is not detailed in any synopsis or backstory that I've found. His backstory is even entirely blank on wiki. So again, I invite you to source where you are getting this information from 
#249
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I am done negotiating with someone hellbent on not understanding me. 

I say this:

Drafter flips actually who he says? We have confirmed town (Danielle), you and me as I am uncc'd Sally d3.

Autowin anyway and easy peasy lemon squeezy unless we get the partner wrong but based on interactions there's a lot to read into from his char desc among other things (isn't that revealed when he dies?) and that can be compared to each our own PM to draw parallels and think who didn't mention any.

Now, as for if he flips scum I don't need to explain the win there but note he's a one-time cop whereas Hammer says he's multi yeah? Learn to gamble well.

VTL Drafter pls (I already am so I'm not bolding this) but I would highly like danielle to out beforehand because if he flips scum while i did 'rule her out' if it's a 3-man team without a framer then perhaps she is scum as their dynamic could well apply to a three man team but seems weird for a 2-man team to interact in all the ways they have.
#250
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I am done negotiating with someone hellbent on not understanding me. 

I am not hellbent on not understanding you. I'm trying to work with you and you keep spouting off nonsense. Like, "oh but she's one of the main characters" 

Ok then you don't get credit for claiming the character in and of itself then. Claiming Sally Rayburn, a major character with a signifigant role, is not the same as claiming the main character. 

The reason why claiming the main character, stressing "the" as in not plural, is because mafia will 100% stay away from such a claim unless supplied as a fake claim. Claiming say Aang in The Last Airbender mafia, or Frodo in Lord of the Rings mafia. These are true main characters that the show revolves around. This show does not revolve around any specific character except maybe John. Rather it focuses upon the Rayburn family as a whole. 

Are all claims of the Rayburn family to be taken as inherently town? I would think not considering the prime characters to be mafia are members of the Rayburn family. 

No, me being confirmed doesn't at all confirm you in the least. First you tried tying yourself to dudz claim by saying your character is close despite his PM not mentioning you and ur character not otherwise being described as close in any synopsis with Jane from what I've found. 

Now ur trying to say me being inno makes you inno? No, you could be lying. Not all major characters are always or even usually included in a game. The only thing that honestly has me not SR'ing you at this point is that you claimed your pm contains characters/backstory before that even started becoming clear as a pattern. 




#251
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Now, as for if he flips scum I don't need to explain the win there but note he's a one-time cop whereas Hammer says he's multi yeah? Learn to gamble well.

This is accurate though and why I'm still ok with a Drafter lynch. If Hammer is town, town loses more than if Drafter is town. There's little reason to think Drafter is scum behaviorally, and plenty to think Hammer isnt. But smart move is to Lynch Drafter to test the cop claim. If he flips inno, then we lynch Hammer. 

Hammer ends up guilty, remaining scum is prolly Vaarka, but honestly you are still a possibility because your behavior via analysishas been largely disgenuinely shaded as numerously evidenced by the sourcing I've done. 

Btw, just to note. If you've ever read a scripy you'd understand scripts contain many story-elements that otherwise can easily be missed in a show. Large parts of scripts don't make it into shows explicitly. Scripts are the entire story as seen when performed, plus much more. I thought you had found a script and maybe understood this. Hence why I was so interested in you linking to the script sources. But I'm thinking you pulled that false story/script dichotomy out of ur arse and when you went to look for scripts to back up you saying that's what was important, you found out what I did. That being that they aren't available to be viewed. 

You gotta stop pulling things out ur rear if ur town. It makes you look scummy AF. 





#252
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I know the storyline, the script isn't important you have it backwards.

Just to clarify again. No, the parts of the script that make it past filming after changes during previous and during filming is canon. Canon even in regards to emotions a character may be feeling, largely interpretive in viewing the end result, because such things are usually provided in scripts to give the actor/actress an emotional guide for their acting. 

I don't dispute you might otherwise have done research. But your interpretation of such synopsis are inconsistent with the synopsis themselves, and reads based off them inconsistent as well.

For example, "Lenny Potts doesn't fit as a cop!". When Lenny Potts is a former detective directly hired by Sally to investigate Danny's death. 

Then to tie that to inconsistency in analysis, you say Supa is town because his character claim is close to urs. But Drafters character has a far more signifigant connection, being close old friends and the aforementioned hiring of Potts to investigste Danny's death. 



#253
Vaarka
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Hey guys just letting you know I'm planning on replacing out. Sorry for my inactivity 
#254
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To clarify:

1) 6 claims of PM's containing backstory and character to Hammers claim his does not. "One of these things is not like.the others, one of these things just doesn't belong."

2) Hammer FoS's RM DP1 but votes Supa. Then investigates Drafter. Inconsistent in rationale.

3) Hammer says he might be willing to claim last DP. Despite having cop as a PR. Townies will generally vehemently fight against claiming and otherwise not be willing to claim, nor even hint they'd be willing to unpressured(as he in essence did.) This is inconsistent with him actually being cop.
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I'm just gonna post this, and probably once more if we decide to lynch Drafter and he flips inno because it's worth noting again

"The main issue i honestly take with [waiting for him to claim] is nothing precludes him as mafia from claiming an important character and/or Doc to root it out via the inevitable CC. 

Understanding the desire for caution, that caution can easily backfire fmpov. Or any major PR for that matter." 

You can include that there is a janitored death, ergo Earth easily could have been cop. You don't take claims post janitor at face value. And any claims made previous look strong AF cause mafia with a janitor are otherwise incentivized to not claim to build their claims around the janitored players role, character(sometimes provided), and justification(usually not provided though.)


"Usually, but not always, Janitors will learn the role and alignment of the players they kill even if they clean up the body."

Note that role+alignment does not include character and justification. Ergo, you usually don't get the whole PM. Though on DDO mafia you usually get character too, full PM's though? Not from what I recall. 

#255
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@Vaarka
Hey guys just letting you know I'm planning on replacing out. Sorry for my inactivity 

Before you go, does your PM contain references to other characters and backstory? Also, character?
#256
Buddamoose
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You don't take claims post janitor at face value. And any claims made previous look strong AF cause mafia with a janitor are otherwise incentivized to not claim to build their claims around the janitored players role, character(sometimes provided), and justification(usually not provided though.)

This last point strongly operates in favor of Supa, RM, and I to be town. 
#257
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If Danielle can illustrate her breadcrumbing she claimed to have been doing in DP1, it strongly operates in favor of her being town too.

Note that inno =\= confirmed inherently. There is a general agreeance a Godfather being a strong possibility lest we forget that.
#258
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I think Vaarkas quitting cause Hammer fucked up big time in his claim. Vaarka not being super present otherwise would explain why nobody stopped Hammer from claiming what he did tbh. Cause Danielle's not wrong to point out it's a pretty absurd slip if true. Absurd because it should have been noticeable to any mafia paying attention there was a pattern and structure to PM's forming. 

Two inactive to a certain extent people would explain why, independent of Hammer clearly not paying attention, his teammate didn't pick that out in devising a fake claim. 

#259
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
Danielle, don't you think this is a good day for mass character claims? RM seems to have an idea about how the names fit.

No, and it's clear RM is making things up as he goes along (frequently being wrong, and throwing a tantrum in the process). 

This also seems a little sus because most of us have been commenting on theme (not just RM) but I digress. We've got bigger fish to fry. Skimming now.
#260
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I find it interesting Drafter is 70% sure he's been framed though despite as he implied, there plenty to consider him as scum. I can understand his reasoning supplied though, and it's fair enough. 

Drafter being framed doesn't make much sense though. Hammer being scummy AF would generally result in an investigation(maybe he's GF?) so it would make most sense for him to be framed fmpov, not Drafter. 

Drafter being guiltied seems more in line with a scum Hammer not paying close attention, looking at the final vote tally, and guiltying the person with the largest wagon independent of himself. 

#261
Danielle
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@drafterman
My question remains. How is that less balanced than 1x framer with a janitor? 
Yes, a 1x framer and janitor is more balanced than having a framer and janitor without X-shots. 

I repeat: I said it was more imbalanced to have a janitor/JOAT combo than a janitor/framer combo. That's what I thought you said and what I was responding to. 
#262
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Alright, skimming over. I'm not even going to comment on RM because he'll have a meltdown if I gave my honest assessment of his play, but suffice it to say, I think he's probably town (though Sally Rayburn is not a main character despite being integral to the story line). 

I think Budda is town, I think RM is town, and I'm trying to assess what I think of GP and Supa. I will say they both outed their claims for no reason and both times it was detrimental to town. 

I don't love Vaarka's play, but trying to rile me up to test my alignment felt more townish than not. That leaves me being most comfortable with a drafter/Hammer lynch today, which is basically taking me back to square one. 

I do think Budda is onto something in noting Hammer's alleged lack of description. His play is consistent with a janitor role, but I don't get why drafter believes there's a greater chance he was framed than that Hammer is scum (70% vs. 30). I will go back and scrutinize this more later tonight after 9:30 EST. 

#263
Buddamoose
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Drafter being guiltied seems more in line with a scum Hammer not paying close attention, looking at the final vote tally, and guiltying the person with the largest wagon independent of himself. 

This being consistent with his obsecenely poor case against Rational, illustrating both a lack of effort and inconsistent application of rationale. That lack of effort and not paying close attention also further evidenced by his lack of any other reads beyond guiltying Drafter this DP. 

Literally all signs are pointing to this guy being scum.


#264
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@Danielle
but I don't get why drafter believes there's a greater chance he was framed than that Hammer is scum (70% vs. 30). I will go back and scrutinize this more later tonight after 9:30 EST. 

I think Drafter is basing that upon assuming 2 cops + an innocent child. But fmpov even a 1x Janitor and full time framer would be imbalanced. If it was a 1x Janitor 1x framer, and like a Godfather for the other role, I'd be more than willing to entertain that as a possibility. 

But a JoaT with those abilities would mean you can only do one at a time. So given a janitor, a framing in the same night wouldnt be possible assuming JoaT with 1x Janitor + 1x framer + 1x(?)

#265
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@Danielle
Also keep in mind that Supa claimed first, right off the bat. This was sus in part because TuF has been known to provide fake claims. But with a janitor that inherently adds credence to any claims made previous to it, as mafia are incentivized to avoid claiming until they Janitor and can build claims around that. 
#266
TheHammer
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Why would I waste an investigation on RM or Supa? They both suck at mafia and will be easy to read as the game progresses. drafter is good at mafia, so he should be investigated. 
#267
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@Danielle
I do think Budda is onto something in noting Hammer's alleged lack of description. 

If it's alleged that means Hammer isnt being truthful. Are you proposing he is lying? If so, how does this make him more towny?  He outright claimed it himself cause he cornered himself into having to claim it.  

#268
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@TheHammer
Why would I waste an investigation on RM or Supa. They both suck at mafia and will be easy to read as the game progresses. 

This is untrue to actual gameplay. Bad town appears scummy AF, point blank. If you are town, look at yourself and understand this is exactly why you are being viewed as scummy AF and people aren't quickly following your claim. 

drafter is good at mafia, so he should be investigated

And so are multiple others in this game. Vaarka, Danielle, GP, myself. Yet, you investigate Drafter? 

#269
TheHammer
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@Buddamoose
"Vaarka" lol
I've also never played with drafter before. I don't see why this is such a weird pick for you.
#270
Buddamoose
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And so are multiple others in this game. Vaarka, Danielle, GP, myself. Yet, you investigate Drafter? 

This btw is exactly why you provide reads on everyone as town. So your train of thought can otherwise be followed and doesn't come across as inconsistent. Again, if you are town look at your own actions and realize you've brought all this suspicion and distrust upon yourself.