Mopac, you are picking at straws. It is well known that the Eastern approach resorted to mysticism following the gods of the Far East. It also known that the written Word was too difficult for them to interpret so they invented an entirely unreasonable form of interpretation. In the West, the Church followed the Word as it was written and attempted to understand it from that point of view. This is not scholasticism, it is practical.
Our approach is consistent with how the ancient church did things. Even in The New Testament, it can be seen that The Church has always interpreted scripture typologically.
To accuse us of following the gods of the far east is unfounded and ignorant.
The first thousand years of church history demonstrate that everything important happened in the east.
You don't speak from a position of knowledge, but presumption.
And again I reiterate, the Western Church understands that faith is of greater value than pure reason or education or tradition. And we do not equate tradition with faith. All traditions must be firmly based in the Scriptures, or else they nothing more than superstition. Hence, the creeds are based Scripturally in the Word of God.
The Orthodox Church agrees, and presents a far better example of what this looks like.
That is why I am Orthodox.
in the East superstitions, traditions, and experientialism is elevated higher than it ought. This devalues the Word of God and faith in it. Hence it is incorrect for you to say that the East understands that the pure in heart see God because by implication you suggest that the West is neither pure in heart nor see God.
The faith is something to be lived out, thus it is experiential. While the west argued over stupid things like the dichotomy between faith and works, we have always understood that faith without works is dead faith, and functionally no faith at all.
We understand the difference between Holy Tradition and custom. You see what we do, and cannot tell the difference. You do not judge rightly.
Superstitious people always will be around, and what The Church does is mercifully guide the superstitious into growing out of these things. How effectice that is depends entirely on the faith of the one being instructed.
The Roman church has been corrupt for over a thousand years, and the reformation was a direct consequence of this.
No, western Christendom doesn't even understand The Trinity, and it is in no small part a consequence of having corrupting the creed, which as I have said before is in violation of the ecumenical councils and church consensus. That is why Rome isn't Orthodox.
The Eastern church is clearly corrupt, just like the Roman Catholic Church. This is evidenced in one sense by the billions of dollars they have salted away despite the obvious poverty of many of their members and the communities they live in. The Eastern Church also has the ring of arrogance about it, never conceding any wrong doing, always expecting others to concede to it, and always failing to bring itself under the Lordship of Christ and his written Word. One example of this is its clear hatred of the bible, calling those who take it seriously as idolaters. It would rather rely upon its superstitions, mysticism, and own wisdom than hear the clear word of God. The Catholic church is no different, taking its source of wisdom not from the Bible, but from its clerics, traditions, and reason. Even the current pope is influenced by the voices in the world attempting to change its doctrines.
All of this is a load of nonsense. The church does help its members, both lovally and over seas. You are only seeing what you want to see. The church I go to not only has helped me personally, but we even send money over seas to churches who are being persecuted in the middle east.
It is the duty of every Christian to personally do charity work. Do we Orthodox like our churches to be beautiful? We sure do. People volunteer to paint icons and do intricate wood work. People donate things specifically to beautify the church.
We don't hate the bible. We read psalms in their entirety. We read entire chapters of the bible during our liturgies. We read scripture in such a way as to make the meaning pop out, even showing how types in the Old Testament scriptures are fulfilled in Christ. Everything we do is about Christ.
Have you ever even experienced our worahip? We don't go to church to be entertained by rock bands, we go to church to pray for the whole world and.glorify God. We don't sing songs about worshipping God, we worship God. We don't sing songs about how God makes us feel, we gloridy Him for trampling down death and raising us up with Him in His ressurection.
None of what you ar e saying is even remotely true, you are judging on appearances. Your understanding of the church is ahistorical, and the saints died to preserve the integrity of the church, which they certainly understood as a visible body here on Earth with Holy Orders in direct lineage to the apostles, preserving the Gospel of Truth.
You don't even know what the church is. If you did, you'd realize that accusing it of not admitting it's wrongs is totally absurd. The Church doesn't commit evil, any evil commited by those in the church comes from deviation from Orthodoxy. We understand the importance of confessing sins. We understand the importance of living a life of repentance.
The Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church, and you evangelicals can't even tell the difference between the true church and the schismatic church your ancestors revolted against.
The Protestant Church is not immune to corruption either. It has over the years since God birthed it fallen back into listening to the voices of the world and not to the Word of God. Yes, like each of the Eastern Orthodox, and the Catholic church, there are pockets, and sometimes large pockets which remain faithful to God and His Word
Nonsense. There is no protestant church, there are thousands of protestant churches. You want to know the fruit of protestantism? Infecting the world with secularism, antinomian Christianity, textual criticism, prosperity gospel, baby churches with no one older than 30, self declared prophets, sanctimonious babbling in gibberish, and an umbrella church that makes a home for every heresy that exists. A church with amnesia, no history.
Protestant churh? What a joke. A kingdom divided against itself that cannot stand.
God knows who are his in the sea of heresy known as protestantism. But God forbid any of these denominations who cannot even claim to be older than a few hundred years be the church of Christ.
Mopac, while I do not dislike the Orthodox Church, and indeed have much time for its history and teachings, when it maintains like you do that it is the ONLY true church then it reeks of being a cult. Not only that, it is an inaccurate assessment of history and teachings. History is never neutral. I accept that the Western history books will be biased - but so will the Eastern history books. It is therefore incumbent on those who do read the history that we do not allow our biased and prejudices to overwhelm the truth.
The truth is that The Orthodox Catholic Church has always maintained that it is the true church, and we will never conpromise the historical understanding of what the church is with the heretical beliefs propogated by heterodox churches who are trying to justify their independence from it.
I don't need anyone to interpret church history for me, I can read the primary sources myself and that is precisely what lead me to The Orthodox Catholic Church, the only church that even resembles the ancient church!
I wasn't born Orthodox. I am not an eastern European. What bias lead me to Orthodoxy? I was taught my whole life history from the Roman perspective. Guess what? I found out it was all lies.
How grateful I am that The Orthodox Church is the original church, and not Rome! How grateful I am to have found Christianity in its enlightened completeness after spending so much time in protestant and evangelical churches who can't even approach the catholicity of the true church.
The reformation will reach its proper end when Christians in the west return to the church instead of trying to rebuild it themselves!
