Brain Teaser

Author: ethang5

Posts

Total: 89
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
834725
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@ethang5
Hmm? ^
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
Nevermind rule 7

Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
384725

 boom 

Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
Nope 5
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
It's hard since Disc solved 1/2 of them too
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
492573



Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Vader
Rule 9
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
It follows all the rules but just been used
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Vader
It has 3 consecutive odd numbers
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
No more than 3, it can have 3 numbers, not more than 3
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Vader
It's hard since Disc solved 1/2 of them too

I have solved all of them, there is one that has not been posted yet.

Hint: It does not have a 9. I already posted 100% of the solutions that have 9s.

Other hint: The last solution does have an 8.
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Ptoeey. I don't like math anyway
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Vader
Like zed said this isn't really math. This same exact puzzle could be replicated by replacing the numbers with letters.

If you can solve it before I get off work (7 hours) I will paypal you ten dollars.
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Now I am motivated
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
there is one that has not been posted yet.
Are you sure?

Like zed said this isn't really math. This same exact puzzle could be replicated by replacing the numbers with letters.
What would rules #8 and #10 be like with letters?
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ethang5
Are you sure?

Yes. If supa can't figure it out in the next 4 hours I will post it.

What would rules #8 and #10 be like with letters?

8 would be easy, just a short list of letters that are arbitrarily not allowed next to eachother (corresponding with all combinations of their respective numbers that are not allowed next to eachother)

Ex. "The following are not allowed next to eachother: B and D, B and F, B and H..." etc.

Rule 10 would be the same but with a longer list.

Ex. "The following three letter combinations may not be on the same side in any order..."

Much more complicated to write out and (at least for us humans) much harder to work with, but still technically doable.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Vader
Here is another hint:

492735 and 537249 are both valid answers.

357294 and 492753 are both valid answers.

Zed gave a valid answer on page one.
Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
Neeeeeeerrrrrds.
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Are you sure?

Yes. If supa can't figure it out in the next 4 hours I will post it.
No, I meant, are you sure only one valid answer has not been posted?

just a short list of letters that are arbitrarily not allowed next to each other...
I would find that less interesting as the rules would be arbitrary instead of based on the mathematical relations between numbers.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
Okay, the number 8 then.

Firstly the only set we can draw solutions from that contains an 8 is 234578. The set 234678 is invalid because it contains 4 even digits and even digits are not allowed to be adjacent. All other sets containing 8 are invalid due to rule 11.


So. 234578.


We start again with the truism that any solution containing 8 must have 8 in one of its 3 digit halves. The possible 3 digit halves list starts a bit larger than when we worked with 9 because rule 10 is less restrictive on 8 than it is on 9:


238
248
258
348


Four starting possibilities rather than two as there were for 9 yet we already know that there are more solutions with 9 than with 8. I suspect the filter will be when we start applying rule 8 in earnest, as 8 has more factors than 9. In fact we can already see this when we remove the '248' pattern due to it containing all even numbers.

After removing the 248 pattern we go to expand upon the permutations of the remaining patterns. Each has exactly one odd number which must be kept in the middle to seperate the two even numbers. Thus we have:


238
832
258
852
438
834


Of course rule 7 cuts most of these out immediately and we are left with:


258
852


Remember that the only set we can work with is 234578. At this point I get the idea for a little shortcut. Because we have only one set to work with let's put the 8 side on hold for a moment and look at what the other side must look like. Firstly we know its numbers must be 3, 4, and 7. The three and 4 cannot be adjacent however so we have only 374 and 473 as possibilities for the other side.


So one side must be 258 or 852 and the other muat be 374 or 473. The only legal ways to "glue" these two sides together are as follows:


258374
473852


And thus we have our only two possible solutions containing an 8. One of them was already posted by zed and the other is just the mirror opposite. A bit disappointing then that we found no new solutions (we already knew that the mirror opposite of any valid solution is itself a valid solution) but it still serves as a logical proof that no such new solutions exist so at least we know not to keep looking for more, this is all there is.

Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ethang5
I would find that less interesting as the rules would be arbitrary instead of based on the mathematical relations between numbers.

Hard to disagree with that.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ethang5
No, I meant, are you sure only one valid answer has not been posted?

I understood the question. My answer was yes. It is possible that I am mistaken though. Has anyone said 258374?

ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Nope. 258374 - Submitted by DD



Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
Just double chacked. 258374 was not said yet at the time I said "the last solution has not been posted yet"

As noted in post 81 the fact that it is the mirror of zeds answer makes it less original (and probably the source of your confusion, I suspect you already knew that the mirror of any valid solution is valid and seeing zeds answer just subconsciously regustered with you as both answers for that reason) but still technically new.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ethang5
All solutions have now been registered as proved in my 2 bigger posts. This was a very fun thread, thanks for making it!
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
But after we come up with the digital chip that allows you to post on the internet, you will have forgotten that you're standing on the shoulders of Neeeeeeerrrrrds.

You're still welcome. The world will always need clerks.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
Actually I never posted the proof that 234567 is not a valid set but I did run through the proof myself (and double checked it after I noticed my rule 8 interpretation error) and it is very much an invalid set.
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Much of it's enjoyment was your posts. Thanks too.