Supreme Being, it means the same thing.
Where Is God?
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@Mopac
It is making specific the reality we are speaking of.Not "reality", but "Reality".Not facts, truths, and realities. Reality itself.
I don't understand the difference between those terms.
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@drafterman
If you don't believe in absolute truth, but only believe in relative truths, your belief undermines the veracity of relative truths.
That is nihilism.
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@Mopac
In the sense that there are propositions which are always true, I believe they can exist.
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@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is not a proposition, but reality as it truly exists in its totality.
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@Mopac
Do you know what the word proposition means?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes I do.
The Word takes flesh for our sake. What we are talking about is not a proposition. Propositions are created things.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality is not a proposition, but reality as it truly exists in its totality.
Okay, but what is the difference between "reality" and "Reality"?
Also:
If you don't believe in absolute truth, but only believe in relative truths, your belief undermines the veracity of relative truths.That is nihilism.
That is not what nihilism is, no.
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@drafterman
Let me help:
Okay, but what is the difference between "reality" and "Reality"?
The second one has a capital letter.
That is not what nihilism is, no.
Maybe not, but what about Ultimate Nihilism? There's a huge difference, man, and if you don't get it, well then your worldview is self refuting, so suck on that.
:)
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@drafterman
Okay, but what is the difference between "reality" and "Reality"?
The Ultimate Reality is self existing, Uncreated, eternal. It is a specific reality.
When we speak of a reality that is not God, we are talking about reality that exists contingently, is created, and temporal.
All reality that is not God is contingent on God. If something exists independent of Ultimate Reality, it is ultimately unreal. It doesn't even exist.
That is not what nihilism is, no.
"That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. " ~Friedrich Nietzsche.
To deny that there is absolute truth is Nihilism in the truest sense.
Nihilism can be best described as the doctrine of negation. In the end, it brings everything to nohing, including itself. It is the prevailing spirit of the modern age, a sort of blind nihilism.
And sure enough, to deny the existence of God is to profess nihilism. It is no strange thing that I am saying.
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@ludofl3x
My words are not vain, the weight of truth is behind them.
You mock what you don't understand.
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@Mopac
Okay, but what is the difference between "reality" and "Reality"?The Ultimate Reality is self existing, Uncreated, eternal. It is a specific reality.When we speak of a reality that is not God, we are talking about reality that exists contingently, is created, and temporal.All reality that is not God is contingent on God. If something exists independent of Ultimate Reality, it is ultimately unreal. It doesn't even exist.
Except I believe reality (that isn't God) is uncreated and eternal.
That is not what nihilism is, no."That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. " ~Friedrich Nietzsche.To deny that there is absolute truth is Nihilism in the truest sense.Nihilism can be best described as the doctrine of negation. In the end, it brings everything to nohing, including itself. It is the prevailing spirit of the modern age, a sort of blind nihilism.
There are other philosophical world views other nihilism that rely on relative truths.
And sure enough, to deny the existence of God is to profess nihilism. It is no strange thing that I am saying.
It is, since there are atheistic world views that aren't nihilistic.
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@Mopac
You mock what you don't understand.
In more ways than one.
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@drafterman
Except I believe reality (that isn't God) is uncreated and eternal.
Then you believe God exists, and simply have an aversion to the word "God".
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@Mopac
Then you believe God exists, and simply have an aversion to the word "God".
Yeah, I see no reason to idolize reality, to poetically personify it, to worship it or build a religion around it. I don't see the jump from reality to any human-made god concept or religion.
So bridge the gap for me. Connect "reality" with Christianity. How does Jesus fit in this picture?
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@drafterman
there are atheistic world views that aren't nihilistic.
Rejection of Ultimate Reality is nihilism.
If you do not reject Ultimate Reality but deny God, it is because you have a superstitious conception of God.
It is a useless wrangling over the meanings of words. However, it is not without harm. The only thing it does is serve to obscure the enlightened doctrine. To make muddy what thousands of years worth of church writings testify of.
It is not harmless. What it does is push us further to the margins. What it does is encourage ignorance. It makes it easier to dismiss us without knowledge. It makes it easier to justify persecuting us. Easier to look the other way when we are sent into concentration camps.
If what I say is true, that is, we teach what it is I am saying we teach, making oneself an adversary of God, Christ, The Church is in every way harmful to society. True knowledge and understanding of our dogma on the other hand leads to a society that is both compassionate and sane. It is a mistake to try to hinder what we do, be it either be directly through declared war against us or indirectly through the perpetuating of ignorance concerning us.
Those who abide in The Way are the salt that preserves the Earth, the light that casts away darkness and gives vision.
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@Mopac
Do you know what the word proposition means?Yes
Tell it to me.
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@drafterman
Divine nature is very different from created nature.
Jesus Christ is the hypostasis that unites creation with divinity. The Incarnate Truth. Jesus Christ shows how God is with us, despite the fact that The Uncreated is by physis very different from creation.
Jesus Christ is God with us, The Word of God made flesh, enlived by The Holy Spirit. When God became incarnate, Everything was created. When God in the flesh became death, death itself was conquered as God's presence there unites it to divinity.
It is through Jesus Christ that we witness God, and to know Jesus Christ is to know God.
Jesus Christ is The Way that we walk. Salvation to us is theosis, that is, being made divine through alignment with The Uncreated Divine Energy. We say that God became man so that man can become divine.
A Christian is called to be a living Icon or image of The Truth. To worship God in Spirit and in Truth. In word and in deed. To worship God in Spirit and in Truth is to worship God in Trinity.
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@Mopac
Divine nature is very different from created nature.
There is no such thing as "divine nature".
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support such an erroneously stated phenomenon and anybody who believes such is clearly deluded.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support such an erroneously stated phenomenon and anybody who believes such is clearly deluded.
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@Salixes
The nature of The Uncreated Reality is different than the nature of created reality.
One is self existing, the other is contingent.
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@Mopac
The nature of The Uncreated Reality is different than the nature of created reality.One is self existing, the other is contingent.
I thoroughly agree with you there
The other is contingent upon the perceiver being totally deluded.
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@Salixes
Those who place their faith in lying vanities forsake their own salvation.
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@Mopac
Those who place their faith in lying vanities forsake their own salvation.
In which case you don't have a hope in Hell of salvation.
But I wouldn't worry about it if I were you since there is no such thing as salvation.
It was a concept dreamed up by those in authority to instill fear and guilt into the deluded mindsets of those who are naive, gullible, weak and vulnerable.
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@Mopac
Divine nature is very different from created nature.
In what way?
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@drafterman
The Divine Physis did not begin to exist, but has always existed. It is eternal.
What defines the created physis is that created things come into being in time, exist in relation, and at some point cease to be temporally.
The Divine is real in every sense.
Created things are real in some sense.
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@Mopac
<br>Jesus Christ is the hypostasis that unites creation with divinity. The Incarnate Truth.
Okay, but all reality is eternal and uncreated. It just "is." So what is being united with what?
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@drafterman
Not all reality is eternal and uncreated.
It should be evident that temporal things come into being and eventually cease to exist. You yourself have a birthday. One day(hopefully far off) you will have a funeral as well.
You yourself are a creature.
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@Mopac
You're just describing the movement of particles from one place to another. Nothing is being "created" or "uncreated" other than the artificial labels we invented for our own purposes.
Reality itself is eternal and uncreated, even if its constituent components move about in interesting ways.
Nothing to bridge, here.
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@drafterman
Information has to go through so many filters before it actually reaches your awareness. It is no strange thing to say that the reality you are experiencing is illusory despite the fact that it derives its existence from that which is ultimately real.
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@drafterman
Particles are created things