The First And Only Religion

Author: Salixes

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Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.
Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.
Are there yet the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked, and the scant measure that is abominable?
Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?
For the rich men thereof are full of violence, and the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.
Therefore also will I make thee sick in smiting thee, in making thee desolate because of thy sins.
Thou shalt eat, but not be satisfied; and thy casting down shall be in the midst of thee; and thou shalt take hold, but shalt not deliver; and that which thou deliverest will I give up to the sword.
Thou shalt sow, but thou shalt not reap; thou shalt tread the olives, but thou shalt not anoint thee with oil; and sweet wine, but shalt not drink wine.
For the statutes of Omri are kept, and all the works of the house of Ahab, and ye walk in their counsels; that I should make thee a desolation, and the inhabitants thereof an hissing: therefore ye shall bear the reproach of my people.

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"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

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@ludofl3x
You know those bible verses are just words to me, no one's demonstrated they're any different from words in any other book. So I'm not going to address them, I've heard them all, I went to church for a long time. But you missed my questions, that's the only reason I'm back. Try again. They're actually your questions.

It means why do we exist? What is the reason you are here? Why is there something rather than nothing?

I answered. 
You seemed unclear to my meaning for you asked.


Post # 55


 I have asked you to discuss your thoughts on why we are here.
And I have asked you what this means. I can't answer the question. 
***
Post # 70:

It means why do we exist? What is the reason you are here? Why is there something rather than nothing? 


In order: don't know, don't know, and don't know. Without knowing these answers, it's amazing I find my way to work every day! Okay, so what are your answers? 
***


If there is no God then we are alone in an indifferent universe and what we do has no impact on this indifferent universe. 
What we do has not one iota of impact on the universe. Not one. It doesn't care at all. But what I do has an impact on people I care about, on my community...why wouldn't I care about that? Are you one of these people who think the only thing holding people back from anarchy and raping their way through the day is Jesus?
No, I am one of those people who reminds you that you are inconsistent with your starting point. My starting point - God - makes sense of morality. God would have an objective mindset, knowing all things. Relative human beings do not. Then you have the aspect of how such things as morality and life arise from this mindless chance happenstance. You are the one who believes it can. 


No, he was not. Show me how that was God's purpose. He went against God's purpose. He chose to do things his way. He placed himself above God's good counsel
Well...then was God completely surprised by these two and their behavior?
How could an all-knowing being be surprised? That does not make sense. 

Didn't he know they'd do this when he made them?
Again, transcending time means He sees the past present and future before Him. They have a will in which they choose evil. Evil is living and acting outside God's counsel and will. 

If he did know and still made them, and his plan was in order, then they only did what god knew they'd do. Well, unless you can tell me for sure what god's purpose was that either Weinstein or Epstein went AGAINST. In my view, they're just monsters who deserve every scintilla of punishment that could be exacted (well, one is now dead, so that's a moot point). In your world, Jesus made them to do what they did and we should be thankful. It's bizarre. 

That is the point, isn't it? From your worldview perspective, they do not get what they deserve. Epstein escaped answering to justice in this life. And who determines what is just outside of an objective being? Does your relativism decide? Why yours?

The thing is that the Christian worldview believes that built into you by God is a sense of justice and fairness. Thus, if your conscience has not been completely seared by evil, you do understand these things. What I am saying is this,

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Why should we want to survive? The evolutionary principle of 'survival of the fittest' does not mean that the fit survives because they want to survive, it means that those who are deemed the fittest are those who do survive. You may argue that they survive because they want to survive but it is not them that determines that but their genetic makeup and how able that makeup aids them in adapting to their environment. Your caring means nothing to a hungry lion or an angry, hateful, cruel person. 

This reflects a pretty bleak view of life and of mankind, none of which I agree with, not to mention a misunderstanding of the principle survival of the fittest and the evolutionary primary goal, survival. Let me help. Survival of the fittest is more like survival of the bare minimum to survive. it's why we have vestigial organs, or why there are so many weird forms of life, not just a single one. Individuals want to survive because if you didn't, you don't get to pass on your DNA (soi in essence, DNA wants to replicate above all else). And no, me caring doesn't mean shit to a lion.
Well, that bleakness reflects where an atheist worldview leads to those who live consistently with it. We are just biological accidents in a universe that is indifferent to our existence. You may not agree with it but I would again contend that you are being inconsistent with your starting belief of blind, random chance happenstance.

Evolution has no goal. Evolution is not a thought process. It has no intent, no mindful process, no agency. Things just happen. What exists is deemed by those who survive and have evolved (to a thinking status) to be fitter than that which does not exist. 

The reason why there are so many varied and complex forms of life from a Christian perspective is because of God's infinite mind.  


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@ronjs
All other leaders of religions are dead in their graves, Christ is risen.
And lives to reign forevermore!

You tell'em Ron.
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It means why do we exist? What is the reason you are here? Why is there something rather than nothing? 


In order: don't know, don't know, and don't know. Without knowing these answers, it's amazing I find my way to work every day! Okay, so what are your answers? 

I'm asking the question again, because you repeatedly say that you make sense of the questions above. Please demonstrate making sense of them. 

My starting point - God - makes sense of morality. God would have an objective mindset, knowing all things. Relative human beings do not. 
This is not 'making sense' of morality. This is assigning credit for morality to god. That doesn't make sense of it at all. Morality is relative and subjective, this is clearly how the world works. It's not the same today as it was however many hundreds of years ago this book was published. You saying "You don't rape anyone because unbeknonst to you, God wrote on your heart! You know it's wrong!" doesn't explain the massive number of self professed Christians who DO rape people. Did god forget to scribble it down for them too? This is going to get more difficult, I'm afraid:
 


No, he was not. Show me how that was God's purpose. He went against God's purpose. He chose to do things his way. He placed himself above God's good counsel
Well...then was God completely surprised by these two and their behavior?
How could an all-knowing being be surprised? That does not make sense. 

Didn't he know they'd do this when he made them?
Again, transcending time means He sees the past present and future before Him. They have a will in which they choose evil. Evil is living and acting outside God's counsel and will. 
I'm confused. In these back to back posts, you're responding to my pointing out that god made Epstien and Weinstein to do exactly what they did, act like monsters. You took offense to this, saying they were going against god's purpose, not with it. But in the bolded, you make clear, god cannot be surprised and sees the past, present and future. This means they don't really have free will, because that would make god surprised by their behavior. This makes him less than all knowing. If he knew what they'd do and he still made them so that they could do it, then it's impossible to imagine that they somehow went against his will. Please don't tell me I'm the one with an inconsistent worldview until you can explain how these two things can simultaneously be true, it's ridiculous that you don't see it. 

That is the point, isn't it? From your worldview perspective, they do not get what they deserve. Epstein escaped answering to justice in this life. And who determines what is just outside of an objective being? Does your relativism decide? Why yours?
I don't know what's going to happen to Weinstein, but Epstein's death is basically what he deserved. Justice is determined by society, not by appealing to magic. It's not individual. BUt again, your worldview is perplexing here: according to you, if Weinstein or Bill Cosby, right before they die, have a sincere come to jesus moment and take him truly and sincerely into their hearts, THEY GO TO HEAVEN. No matter what they did. This is the entire appeal of Jesus, heaven and hell. If you get to heaven and Bill Cosby's your neighbor, do you think he got what he deserved? A handful of years in prison after decades of systemic sexual assault on unconscious women? That's the perfect system of justice and morality according to you.  

We are just biological accidents in a universe that is indifferent to our existence. You may not agree with it but I would again contend that you are being inconsistent with your starting belief of blind, random chance happenstance...Things just happen. What exists is deemed by those who survive and have evolved (to a thinking status) to be fitter than that which does not exist. 
I agree, this is exactly what we are. You're arguing from incredulity. I'm looking at what's available for everyone on earth to look at and saying the simplest explanation is most likely. You're still missing the word "fittest" in this context. It's not who's strongest. It's who's best adapted to the environment. It's SUPER SIMPLE to understand as a principle, it's just unsettling at first, but seriously this is all there is. I know this is difficult to understand if you think the world is something like 10,000 years old, which I believe you do, but that's because, ironically, your starting point is way, way, way, way, way off. 
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@ronjs
The Bible treats death as the enemy,Virtually all others see death as a good thing.

How? Some interpretations seem to think this life is just a practice run, one to wipe one's feet on so that you're ready for the next life. And after death you get to go to Jesus's party provided you're in the right group. Which religions see death as a 'good thing'? That's distinctly different from seeing it as inevitable and not to be feared, you know. 

Salvation is a gift which people cannot earn, others say one has to earn it.
So you believe in predeterminism, where you're saved no matter what, or you're damned no matter what? Because different sects of Christianity believe both that it can be earned (by asking forgiveness, by inviting Jesus over to your heart sincerely, or just by being Christian) and others think you can't earn it (no Hindu goes to heaven, no matter how good a person they are). 

All other leaders of religions are dead in their graves, Christ is risen.


Where is he, then? Because as far as I can tell, if he ever existed, he sure seems to be dead to me. He's not giving interviews, he's not performing miracles, he's not out preaching his word, he's not on this message board, and if he loved everyone (this is also a point of contention among Christians, for example, ethang doesn't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few), that would be the responsible thing to do.
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@ludofl3x
He's not giving interviews, he's not performing miracles, he's not out preaching his word, he's not on this message board,...
You just described Richard P. Hobson.

ethang doesn't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few,
That is your belief you're trying to hoist on me. Now, you either believe Jesus was about saving you, or you do not believe he was about saving you.

It would have been less of a lie if you had  said "ethang AND I don't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few..."

I'm assuming you think movement towards truth is preferable?
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@ethang5
If I mischaracterized your position feel free to clarify,  but you won't. Youd rather preen and posture and feel like you win the internet or whatever. My position is I'm pretty sure the entirety if the bible is fiction/ myth, that jesus wasn't real, that no one has had superpowers, that he was not "sent" from whatever dimension to "save" anyone from the wrath of some unseen, undemonstratable and completely impotent god. You knew that though. Commence your usual slice and dice apoplepsy, addressing as little as possible with as much words and you can muster.
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@ludofl3x

Ethang doesn't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few,
That is your belief you're trying to hoist on me. Now, you either believe Jesus was about saving you, or you do not believe he was about saving you.

It would have been less of a lie if you had  said "ethang AND I don't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few..."

My position is I'm pretty sure the entirety of the bible is fiction/ myth, that jesus wasn't real, that no one has had superpowers, that he was not "sent" from whatever dimension to "save" anyone from the wrath of some unseen, undemonstratable and completely impotent god.
So then the final and full truth is...

"I, Ludofl3x, don't think he was about saving EVERYONE, just a few..."
Thank you. See? As long as you're moving towards truth, you will get there.
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@ethang5
Actually the point I was making is that some CHRISTIANS do not believe jesus was sent to save everyone. Maybe read the whole sentence where I refer to Christian s and then cited you as an example next time. It wouldnt have been accurate to say some Christians about myself, I'm not a Christian. Congrats on proving I dont believe jesus was sent to save everyone,  I guess that's a typically obtuse way for you to say that I dont believe in jesus at all though. Well done.
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@ludofl3x
Actually the point I was making is that some CHRISTIANS do not believe jesus was sent to save everyone. 
I was only interested in your lie about what Ethan believed.

Maybe read the whole sentence where I refer to Christian s and then cited you as an example next time.
I did, and pointed out your lie. You did not cite me as a Christian, you cited me as a Christian who didn't believe that Jesus came to save everyone.

It wouldnt have been accurate to say some Christians about myself, I'm not a Christian. 
It wasn't accurate for you to say, "some Christians" about me either. I'm not a Christian who believes Jesus didn't come to save everyone.

Congrats on proving I dont believe jesus was sent to save everyone,
I only cared about what you said I believed. Proving you don't believe in Jesus was just a serendipitous perk.

Well done.
Thanks, but I knew I'd be able to dismantle your lie.
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So do you believe he came.tonsave everyone then?
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@Pinkfreud08
the old time religion
Many times older than the religions that copied it such as Islam and Christianity.

And still very alive and virtually unchanged.
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@ronjs

Yes, they all have their unique characteristics but the Bible has the most significant ones.
I thoroughly agree with you there.

It would be fair to say that there is no other book with so much perverted sex, gratuitous violence and killing, exaggerated myths, gross inaccuracies, and outright lies.

It certainly gets off to a great start with a complete absurdity:

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth".

Pull the other one.
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@ronjs
Researching the different religions can determine which is most tenable.
That is like trying to choose the best apple from a box entirely full of completely rotten, putrid fruit.
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@ronjs
Researching the different religions reveals that born again Christianity is unique compared to all others.


And it just happens to be the one that you subscribe to.

Right?

The absurdities, lies, and deceit are certainly unique, don't you think?


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It would be fair to say that there is no other book with so much perverted sex, gratuitous violence and killing, exaggerated myths, gross inaccuracies, and outright lies.
Salixes is on another board with a Hindu best friend. So he knows whats in the Hindu "holy book".

Incest, rape, and child porn. And not just reporting instances of it like the bible does, but having graphic stories of their Gods raping and indulging in incest and child porn. Yet Ol Sal thinks the bible is worse.

Just before coming back to Dart, ol Sal was accused of having child porn on his PC. Could that be related to why he doesn't see the Hindu smut as vile?

Curious.
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@Mopac
True Religion as I said, is to abide in The Eternal Way of Truth.
It has always been this way. True Religion has always existed. 
That is something you aren't interested in understanding, so you dismiss it outright.
I'm not that particularly interested in understanding such dictatorial nonsensical rubbish. I would leave that to a professional such as a psychiatrist to explain why there are people who have a need to let the world know that they are a sandwich short of a picnic.

My understanding is that I would feel like a complete dork going around blurting out that sort of unmitigated tripe.
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@Salixes
My understanding is that I would feel like a complete dork going around blurting out that sort of unmitigated tripe.
But spamming the same "Godmanbad" stupidity over and over for 6 years is smart? If you don't feel like a dork, what do you feel like? Because I can tell you how you look.
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@Salixes
So you are willfully ignorant because otherwise you won't look cool?


Sounds like nonsense to me.



All I am saying is to keep it real. That's all I ever say. That's why mockers like you in the end will be put to shame. 

18 days later

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@ludofl3x
It means why do we exist? What is the reason you are here? Why is there something rather than nothing? 


In order: don't know, don't know, and don't know. Without knowing these answers, it's amazing I find my way to work every day! Okay, so what are your answers? 

I'm asking the question again, because you repeatedly say that you make sense of the questions above. Please demonstrate making sense of them. 
We are here because a self-existent Being chose to create us for His pleasure and purposes. Those purposes were to know and enjoy Him forever but He gave us, His creatures, a will to choose.

When you start with God you find answers that make sense. Sense comes from an ultimate rational Being. We are not such beings. We are limited in our knowledge and scope. We know what is good because an all-knowing Being has revealed what is good and His nature reflects what is good. We have the best to reference good and evil against. What we witness in creation reflects His being and goodness. We understand being coming from necessary being and all we ever witness is beings come from other beings. We have a foundation for knowledge, wisdom, and love, not an empty void of nothingness. We witness life coming from the living and we, as Christians, understand that our lives originate from a necessary living Being. We, as Christians, understand that the created order, the universe, owes its existence to a transcendent Being. Thus, time is in our realm, the physical realm, for it had a beginning. Science pointed in so many ways to a beginning.   

My starting point - God - makes sense of morality. God would have an objective mindset, knowing all things. Relative human beings do not. 
This is not 'making sense' of morality. This is assigning credit for morality to god. That doesn't make sense of it at all.
Yes, it does. From an ultimate necessary Being, we as limited relative, changing creatures have what is needed to make sense of morality. Morality is a mindful process yet neither your mind nor my mind is necessary or sufficient to establish what is good. In an amoral, mindless universe why do such things matter? They don't, yet you as a mindful being seek meaning and want to make things matter, for what ultimate reason? They are none without God. Meaning and justice are related. In a universe devoid of God what does what Hitler did matter? In the long term, nothing matters and what Hitler did is not answered for by justice. So why do you care what someone else does if he/she can get away with it? What does it matter if he/she can get away with it? And why do you continually seek meaning in a meaningless universe? Is that not insane? You are making up something that you have no ultimate standard for - good - and if my "good" oppose your "good" then who is right? There is no such thing as rightness, there is only a preference, so how can you say what Hilter did was wrong? It was just his preference. Some people love their enemies and some people like to kill them. What is your preference?  

Morality is relative and subjective, this is clearly how the world works.
How does that clearly work and how is it logical? For instance, Nation A believes abortion is wrong, except when not having one will result in the death of both the woman and unborn. Nation B believes abortion is right and permits abortion for any reason. Clearly both these positions cannot both be true since they are the antithesis of the other. Now the question becomes, in a relative subjective world of morality why is your position and BETTER than mine. You are probably pro-choice and I am pro-life. So, how can you determine which position is indeed "right?" You do not have the means. Your worldview is bankrupt of determining right. All you can do, without a necessary being who has revealed the right, is voice your preference. And to enact your preference you must use might makes right instead of right makes might.

Your entire system of thinking does not have what is necessary to make sense of morality as anything other than preference enforced by might. There is nothing right or good about that UNLESS it conforms to a fixed standard of righteousness that your worldview lacks the ability to manufacture. 

It's not the same today as it was however many hundreds of years ago this book was published. You saying "You don't rape anyone because unbeknonst to you, God wrote on your heart! You know it's wrong!" doesn't explain the massive number of self professed Christians who DO rape people. Did god forget to scribble it down for them too? This is going to get more difficult, I'm afraid:
Any "professing" Christian who rapes a woman shows they do not know God's good decrees. Many professing Christians show they do not have the love of God in their hearts by their actions. Jesus said to His disciples that they would recognize them by their fruit. A good tree does not bear bad fruit and visa versa.  
 


No, he was not. Show me how that was God's purpose. He went against God's purpose. He chose to do things his way. He placed himself above God's good counsel
Well...then was God completely surprised by these two and their behavior?
How could an all-knowing being be surprised? That does not make sense. 
It is a rhetorical question. Of course, God is not surprised. 


Didn't he know they'd do this when he made them?
Again, transcending time means He sees the past present and future before Him. They have a will in which they choose evil. Evil is living and acting outside God's counsel and will. 
I'm confused. In these back to back posts, you're responding to my pointing out that god made Epstien and Weinstein to do exactly what they did, act like monsters.
This is where you are confused. God did not make them do exactly what they did. They chose to do what they did. Their sinful preference was to do exactly the opposite of what God said to do. You are inventing, twisting, and convoluting the context.  

You took offense to this, saying they were going against god's purpose, not with it. But in the bolded, you make clear, god cannot be surprised and sees the past, present and future. This means they don't really have free will, because that would make god surprised by their behavior.
I'm finding your logic here abysmal. How can an omniscient being be surprised by anything? He knows all things? Does He make you do His will? He gives you your own will to choose and lets you know that eventually you will be held accountable for the things you do that are wrong. If God did not give you some leniency you would be a robot, but clearly that is not what the Bible teaches. 

You keep smuggling in this element of God being surprised. You also bring in this element that if God knows all things then we are not free to do our own thing, make our own choices. But God's permissive and God's sovereign will are different. God may allow things that are wrong for a season or time (permits it for a time). He allows it for His purposes. That is why we witness evil. We witness it and see it in ourselves because God is allowing it for a purpose, so that good may come from it. When I look at the evil in myself and the world and try to live what I understand as "good" apart from God I witness more evil. Thus, evil will either bring me closer to God or drive me away from God. It brings me closer when I realize that I am accountable to God and His justice. I must answer for the evil I have committed and do not have the means to be held guiltless in and of my own merit or ability. Thus, I look to Him and find that ability in what Someone else has done. That is the "Goodnews" that God is conveying to us. It says that we can find peace with God through the merit of Another - Jesus Christ. By believing (choice) in Him - Jesus - I am reconciled to God and find the peace that transcends understanding. 

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@ludofl3x


This makes him less than all knowing. If he knew what they'd do and he still made them so that they could do it, then it's impossible to imagine that they somehow went against his will. Please don't tell me I'm the one with an inconsistent worldview until you can explain how these two things can simultaneously be true, it's ridiculous that you don't see it.
Yes, God knew they would do evil (act against the light of His revelation of goodness) yet He permitted them to do so anyway. Thus, unless they repent and are willing to submit to Him as sovereign and find mercy by accepting the means He has given they will be held accountable for their actions. It is as simple as that. How is it inconsistent, that you have the will to choose to know God or not to know Him? How is it inconsistent that you choose to do evil and disobey your Maker? How is it inconsistent that He warns you of the consequences and you understand them yet you choose to ignore them?

That is the point, isn't it? From your worldview perspective, they do not get what they deserve. Epstein escaped answering to justice in this life. And who determines what is just outside of an objective being? Does your relativism decide? Why yours?
I don't know what's going to happen to Weinstein, but Epstein's death is basically what he deserved. Justice is determined by society, not by appealing to magic. It's not individual. BUt again, your worldview is perplexing here: according to you, if Weinstein or Bill Cosby, right before they die, have a sincere come to jesus moment and take him truly and sincerely into their hearts, THEY GO TO HEAVEN. No matter what they did. This is the entire appeal of Jesus, heaven and hell. If you get to heaven and Bill Cosby's your neighbor, do you think he got what he deserved? A handful of years in prison after decades of systemic sexual assault on unconscious women? That's the perfect system of justice and morality according to you.
Grace is not getting what you deserve but what you do not deserve. If those who believe in Jesus got what they deserved they would be judged and condemned. Grace is His life lived on behalf of others so that we would not have to pay the penalty of sin. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus for God has judged the sins of those who put their trust in Him already. He lived the perfect life before God on their behalf. He paid the FULL penalty and sustained the wrath and judgment of God we deserve. 

What makes you think that once you sin and do what is wrong in the sight of a pure, holy, righteous God that you will then get to enjoy His goodness and mercy forever when you do not have a repentant heart? Do you think God will continually allow you to spoil paradise by your sinfulness? No, He has provided what is necessary - Jesus Christ -  that we may have a new life, a new spirit, and abundant life. So God has been gracious in supplying to us something we could not achieve by our own merit. True faith in Jesus Christ changes our lives, it changes how we view God. We learn to rejoice in God and ever-increasing trust in Him and His word. We know God cannot lie. His Spirit confirms with our spirits that we have been adopted into His family and now have peace with Him. 

Next, I have a hard time imagining that Epstein was repentant but that is not for me to decide. I can't know if someone has a last-minute conversion and comes to faith. That is a matter between the person and God. 

Finally, do you believe that Epstein got justice? Do you believe that what he dished out was equal to his punishment if there is no God? Did he receive the same that he gave in terms of harm and hurt and evil? 


We are just biological accidents in a universe that is indifferent to our existence. You may not agree with it but I would again contend that you are being inconsistent with your starting belief of blind, random chance happenstance...Things just happen. What exists is deemed by those who survive and have evolved (to a thinking status) to be fitter than that which does not exist. 
I agree, this is exactly what we are. You're arguing from incredulity.
I don't know how you can say "this is exactly what we are" with certainty. That is just another inconsistency with your worldview. You make these absolute, universal statements from a relative position. Go figure. Furthermore, if things just happen why do you believe tomorrow will be like today and why should things hold together as they have in the past? Can you answer that instead of talking around it? 

I'm looking at what's available for everyone on earth to look at and saying the simplest explanation is most likely. You're still missing the word "fittest" in this context. It's not who's strongest. It's who's best adapted to the environment. It's SUPER SIMPLE to understand as a principle, it's just unsettling at first, but seriously this is all there is. I know this is difficult to understand if you think the world is something like 10,000 years old, which I believe you do, but that's because, ironically, your starting point is way, way, way, way, way off.
Simple? What is simple about it? Anything (countless variations) can happen unless an intentional mindful Being has directed how this will happen and sustains such an existence. If you are going by the "fittest" then if someone like Hitler kills all the Jews, all the gypsies, all the Slavs, all the deformed, all those of African descent, what is wrong or bad about that if Hitler says it is good? Nothing, except if you happen to be one of the less favoured "races." Then you just know it is plain evil. Then you know some things are definitely evil, not just mere preference dictated by the fittest. 

As for the age of the earth, since Charles Lyle and Uniformitarianism, then Charles Darwin and Evolution plus add in the Age of Reason where "man" became the measure of all things, we have built our thinking around a particular narrow paradigm or reasoning. What is still up in the air from that paradigm is how we got here - life from non-life - as well as what happened in the beginning, if there was such a thing. We only seem to realize (and I'm speaking generally for I know some people who believe contrary to the following) that we had a beginning. Thus we humans do not work in the B-theory of time. That is a different realm to us, God's realm.  

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@PGA2.0
When you start with God you find answers that make sense.
I think it more likely that you invent answers that pacify you.

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@Seth
I think it more likely that you invent answers that pacify you.

That's what happens when you make assumptions, since you assume God doesn't exist the explanations filter through as pacifying. Remove your presumptions and filters and maybe engage in a meaningful way. You never know you might learn something. Why should those interested in religious DISCUSSION have to sift through and endure your assertions and filters?

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@EtrnlVw
That's what happens when you make assumptions, since you assume God doesn't exist the explanations filter through as pacifying. Remove your presumptions and filters and maybe engage in a meaningful way. You never know you might learn something. Why should those interested in religious DISCUSSION have to sift through and endure your assertions and filters?
Anybody is entitled to assume that God does not exist since there is not one shred of evidence that there is such a thing and anybody wishing to engage in intelligent, meaningful discussion should accept such a fact.


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@Salixes
Anybody is entitled to assume that God does not exist since there is not one shred of evidence that there is such a thing

You keep repeating that because you don't listen to answers. But thanks for the usual assertion and worthless opinion.

and anybody wishing to engage in intelligent, meaningful discussion should accept such a fact.

If you really were here to engage in intelligent, meaningful discussion you would consider people's arguments and answers rather than ignore them just to repeat your assertions. But at least you admit you're not here for meaningful discussion, preach it brotha. 


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@EtrnlVw
That's what happens when you make assumptions, since you assume God doesn't exist
I don't assume that at all, my conclusion is based on the FACT that men have been creating gods ever since men have created anything and the complete lack of evidence supporting the existence of any gods.

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@EtrnlVw
If you really were here to engage in intelligent, meaningful discussion you would consider people's arguments and answers rather than ignore them just to repeat your assertions. But at least you admit you're not here for meaningful discussion, preach it brotha. 

I did not ignore other people's arguments. Quite the opposite, I raised the error of your argument.

Are you going to respond, or are you going to continue with your personal attack?
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 How is it inconsistent that He warns you of the consequences and you understand them yet you choose to ignore them?

If god makes someone like Adam or you knowing you'd do evil, you do not have free will at all. It's as simple as that. If you choose to repent or not doesn't surprise god. He can't be mad if he can't be surprised, and he can't be surprised because he knew what you'd do the second he made you, and he knows if you'll be sorry about it or not.

Grace is not getting what you deserve but what you do not deserve.
In this way, grace is the opposite of justice according to you. 

Did he receive the same that he gave in terms of harm and hurt and evil? 
Not remotely, but he's dead. That's the end of that story. Well, unless he said really sorry, Jesus, and now he's on Jesus's yacht full of 14 year old girls in heaven, right? 

 if things just happen why do you believe tomorrow will be like today and why should things hold together as they have in the past? Can you answer that instead of talking around it? 
That's what they've always done. I don't spend literally any time, not one second, wondering if tomorrow will be like today. It won't, it's a totally different day. I don't get this question. Let me guess, is the answer "Jesus, ha, I made sense of a big question"?

Change your "fittest" to "bare minimum" and you will start to understand evolution a little more. Hitler, again, good grief you guys love that one. Strange that someone we all agree was entirely evil, who perpetrated such heinous crimes against God's chosen people, that god made him do that in the first place. And also that god didn't step in and help on his own, but needed five years worth of war and millions of lives lost to get rid of him. Why not just miracle his ass out of there? Or, better idea, don't make him to do that in the first place. Like look at the plans for your Hitler and say "Whoops, wait a minute, if I make this guy exactly this way, he's going to kill six million jews, plus a ton of other non jews, like CHristians! Maybe I should take another look at this design, yeesh, that was a close one!"
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 In the long term, nothing matters and what Hitler did is not answered for by justice.

If Hitler repented rather than killed himself, then died by a tank shell, would he be in heaven right now? The answer is yes. There are no sins, no amount of sins can pile up, that your faith says cannot be instantly forgiven. That's justice and perfect morality at work for you. To me, he's dead and I'm glad about it. 

For instance, Nation A believes abortion is wrong, except when not having one will result in the death of both the woman and unborn. Nation B believes abortion is right and permits abortion for any reason. Clearly both these positions cannot both be true since they are the antithesis of the other.
Nations don't believe anything. The people in them do, strictly, speaking. Also, these positions are not the opposite of each other as abortion is legal in both places, under different conditions. And finally, you're confusing moral with legal. Ideally, people decide what's moral and then make laws accordingly. Not Jesus. 

without a necessary being who has revealed the right,
This perfect moral system is the one where I do a crime, the court knows it was me, and sentences YOU to death for it. Not by mistake, they knew the whole time. 

God did not make them do exactly what they did. They chose to do what they did. Their sinful preference was to do exactly the opposite of what God said to do. You are inventing, twisting, and convoluting the context.  

If god knew what they'd do when he designed them, and made them anyway, and he cannot be surprised by their actions, that means they cannot take any action god hasn't foreseen, right? How exactly is that free will then? 

God may allow things that are wrong for a season or time (permits it for a time). He allows it for His purposes.
Then how exactly would I be the one accountable for his will, if I'm only doing what he wanted me to do? THIS IS NOT FREE WILL. 

You keep smuggling in this element of God being surprised. You also bring in this element that if God knows all things then we are not free to do our own thing, make our own choices. But God's permissive and God's sovereign will are different.
I'm not smuggling it in. I'm pointing out that unless there's a way for god to be surprised, then god is ultimately responsible for the whole problem to begin with. You try to hand wave it with a total non sequitur (bolded). THis in no way addresses the problem you refuse to see. Take it back to the myth in the garden. If god wanted people to be around basically to tell him how awesome he was all the time, and he really didn't want anyone to get punished for making him mad, there's a very easy solution: don't put the trees with the forbidden fruit in the garden, right? Once you put those there, and create Adam, it follows that god would know man would definitely eat the fruit he tells him not to eat. If this was such a henoius crime, god could have, in his wisdom said "Maybe I'll put that tree someplace else, or not include it at all. I can, after all, make this magic garden any way I want to, I can't believe I almost put a tree full of fruit that would mean, for some reason I haven't really figured out yet, that I'd have to burn this dude and his wife forever and ever and ever. Wow, I'm in a mood today!" God knew every little bit of what would happen (Not MIGHT happen, definitely would happen) and made them anyway. He's responsible for his own problem, and I feel bad for people like you who have been taught that they're garbage by default, when you should be thinking you're garbage BY DESIGN and you're not the problem.