Why Do Christians Hate Gays?

Author: Salixes

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#121
Athias
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@ludofl3x
Only if no one else got state sanctioned "marriage" licenses, which I take as your point about the mistake in aligning the church vocab (marriage) with the state law (licensing the unions). Equality is equal across the board. One could argue having separate drinking fountains, bus routes, etc for blacks should also have "sufficed."
In private establishments and institutions, it certainly would've sufficed. The issue was the contradiction in the scope of so called "public goods"  and the "equality" the law promised. The Civil Rights Movement of the early to mid 20th century did more to hamper the "black" demographic. That too was an attempt to ingratiate said black demographic into a public debt scheme that has been perpetuated since the inception of these United States. Third Wave Feminism is the 21st century's vehicle into this debt scheme.

#122
Tradesecret
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@Stephen
The Fact is Christians don't hate homosexuals. I am not even sure they dislike them. 
You appear to be speaking for all Christians simply by stating it as "fact". 

LOL! @ Stephen. Since you are not a Christian, it hardly matters what you think Christians think. I am speaking on behalf of all REAL Christians that I know. If a real Christian wants to dispute my position, then I am quite prepared to discuss this with them. Until then however it remains a fact and is a fact according to the Bible. 

The Bible is full of many kinds of genre so it is ridiculous to use it in exactly the same manner throughout. Interestingly, it tends to be the Christian who attempts to use it properly while the anti-Christian often (not always) chooses to interpret it and use it literally. 

That is nothing more than opinion. And for you to keep prefixing the word "Christian" with the word "anti" won't make your own interpretation of the scriptures any more credible than my own or anyone else's who have looked at and studied these scriptures, for over 40 years in my case.

Which part of my paragraph are you referring to as "opinion"? The first part that the Bible is full of genre or the second part that it tends to be non-Christians who interpret it literally? Putting both parts as a paragraph and making the assertion you did requires further clarification. 

Who ....?  Why....? What ?  if so, what and why?

Posing questions of your own on someone else' thread go nowhere near answering the question posed by the OP
LOL @ Stephen, I am putting the point that people need to ask questions of any text, are you opposed to this notion?

The OT law for example was written to the people of Israel,[....................]  It was not written to Christians in that same sense.

It was not written for Christians at all. I have stated many times here, that, the early Christians lumbered themselves with the OT god and the OT scriptures when they adopted a religion that they had absolutely no understanding of. And now, the modern Christian has to try and explain away all these vile OT scriptures and explain away all the violence meted out by this OT god.

I have no problem that the OT was written to the Jews primarily when they were God's people. Yet this position is clearly also addressed to the Christian in the event that God broadened the definition of God's people.  Christians clearly fall within this position in accordance with both the OT and the NT. Christians don't have a need to explain away any of the Bible. We just interpret it according to its own standards. 

They have to invent excuses, change words, and whole meanings of verses and downright lie, to protect,  shield and defend the actions of this self confessed violent, jealous god of war and murder.

Says you. I have no issue with God being a jealous God. I have no issue with God committing genocide. I have no issue with a God who sends people to eternal Hell.  As for violence, who makes violence per se a crime or an offence? Modern man???? 

 But as someone has already pointed out ; The Christian faith states that Jesus is god and god wrote "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13).   This is not to mention that Jesus states that has not come to change the "law" Matthew 5:17. 

And Jesus did not change the law, did he? You can't read Hebrew, so I will not bother with trying once again to explain to you about covenantal meanings and Hebrew idioms.  ( you don't have the intelligence to understand- and have proved this previously) Jesus has never said that homosexuals do not deserve the death penalty. 
The thing about sin is - who gets to define what it is?
Ask a Christian, ask a Jew and ask a Muslim, they will all have their own different interpretations and versions  of what are deemed to be crimes against god and gods will.

Of course they will.  That is totally obvious.   What does it add to say this? Ask a non-religious person and they will say their own thing. We would expect each of these three religions and every other religion to say something different - although interestingly, most Jews and Most Christians would probably be close in their definition of what sin is and what is a sin if they were to use the Bible as a reference point. 

 For the Christian sin is defined by God as "falling short of his standards". 
I am not sure if you are just trying to play down what the consequences are for a homosexual " falling short of his standards". Or if you are trying to simplify what crimes/sins against god and his will actually are. But god / also known to Christians as Jesus the Christ, makes the punishment for homosexuality a capital crime, does he not?

Yes, Jesus does. (My qualification of a capital crime and its consequences are different to yours though) Falling short of God's standards is the definition of sin according to the bible. I am not sure what your reasoning is here - there is no logical flow to your thought.  It sounds like "I don't understand what you are saying - it is either a or b but in any event Jesus says homosexuals should be put to death. " With the greatest respect what does that have to do with my understanding of how the bible defines sin? It is nonsense.  You are nonsensical. 
If the Opening poster is correct - then all Christians hate all things. This is clearly absurd.
Is rape and   murder just "falling short" of Gods standards?  Do you not see how ridiculous and "absurd" your statement is? 

Yes rape and murder fall short of God's standards. Christians hate such things. Christian hate sin.  Sin is an action or behaviour. But Christians do not hate things. Pornography, prostitution and paedophilia are actions that Christians hate. Christians do not hate paedophiles and they do not hate prostitutes, and they do not hate people who look at pornography, even though they completely disagree with each of these actions and behaviours that people do. 

I don't hate homosexuals. I don't hate the pope. I don't hate muslims. I don't hate my clients. But this does not mean that I condone what they do. I don't. I reject their views - but like my clients who I represent - I don't hate them. 

Saying Christians hate homosexuals because we disagree with their actions and beliefs is not the same as hating them. To say otherwise is not only absurd it denies the reality of life that contains many different sorts of people in this world. 




#123
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@Tradesecret
Learn to quote properly .You have quoted you as me and me as you. I suppose that is one way to derail a conversation.

You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual act.

Strange isn't it, that  there is nothing in the bible that says sex with minors and infants is taboo.  



#124
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@Stephen
if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe... 
And yet you keep dodging the question of whether God created your loony threads. Why?

..then he created homosexuals...
Where is your evidence that God created homosexuals?

...and then called it an "abomination"...
Does God call the act or the person an abomination?

then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual act.
So even if an heterosexual participated, he would similarly get capital punishment? Oops! Sorry, you're dishonest so you don't answer questions.

Strange isn't it, that  there is nothing in the bible that says sex with minors and infants is taboo.
There is. You're just ignorant. Do you have a problem controlling your attraction to children?
#125
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
This distills the entire argument, you can skip all the other stuff. How does this square off exactly? Wouldn't it have been part of his plan, and wouldn't he have known this would happen, so why get mad about it when it could have been deleted as a possibility?

You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual act.

#126
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@Stephen
Perhaps I have not quoted as you wanted me to. I simply cut and pasted your post and then tried and distinguish between what I wrote in the quote box and you in the underlined ones. I then added my new response normally. I suppose that might not be the correct way to quote and obviously confused you. Sorry. I had no intention of derailing any conversation - yet I also did not realise you were so delicate or sensitive. 

As for your quote:

You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual act.

Even here you completely, perhaps intentionally misconstrue and change the narrative to suit yourself, conveniently forgetting events that occur in the Biblical narrative. 

I have no issue with God creating all things in the universe. Did God create homosexuals? Well I would say no. And this answer accords with the biblical narrative. God created all things and made them good. The intervening event that occurs is the fall of humanity and sin. Sin is where evil for want of a better word came into the world. 

The bible clearly teaches that humanity was made as male and female and that one of its primary purposes was to populate the earth. It is impossible to populate the earth with homosexuality. I doubt very much that God would have only given this responsibility to some and intentionally excluded others. It seems more likely that some people wanted to rebel against God's commands and do something else. 

Now sin reigns in many respects and we have all sorts of people who have all sorts of agendas and wants and desires. This is not restricted to homosexuals but clearly includes them.  

So I do not hold to your fallacious reasoning that God created homosexuals. God called it an abomination, as he does with several other things. In respect in capital punishment, although this may indeed include the physical death of a person, it also included the isolation of people covenantally from the nation and also from worship with God. The casting of Adam and Eve out of the garden is the Biblical example of the death penalty. Now you can deny this all you want, it hardly matters to me, but it is the biblical picture and one that is quite common in many parts of the world.  

God called homosexuality an abomination because it distorts the image of God and because it denies one of the primary purposes and responsibilities that God had given humanity. Homosexuality arose after the fall of humanity into sin; not before hand. TO say otherwise is to distort the biblical narrative. 
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#127
Salixes
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@Tradesecret
God called homosexuality an abomination because it distorts the image of God and because it denies one of the primary purposes and responsibilities that God had given humanity. Homosexuality arose after the fall of humanity into sin; not before hand. TO say otherwise is to distort the biblical narrative. 

So, let's get this straight. God had nothing to do with homos becoming homos. They just got that way from their own free will after humanity fell into sin. Of course you are not saying that in as much words that homosexuality is a sin....it was just a coincidence that homosexuals came to be....ooooh let's say, a day after the fall of humanity.
Sheer coincidence right? Because after all you just love homos and there is nothing sinful about them at all.
It's just that everyone fell into sin and perhaps God was being just a little homophobic when he just so happened to discriminate against homosexuals when what he really meant to say was, "for anyone to fall into sin is an abomination".

After all, when God started churning out the first homo-erectus (and I'm not talking about Gays with hard-ons) from his pottery wheel about 1.6 million years ago (4000 Christian years) morals and ethics hadn't been invented and it was fairly commonplace to consider some people as queer.

Have I encapsulated the thrust of your argument right there?
Oh, and have you fell in love with any more pansies lately?
#128
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@ethang5
And yet you keep dodging the question of whether God created your loony threads. Why?

Because I have given up being the slightest interested in your bullshit questions when is all you do when cornered is tell lies and rewrite the whole fucking scripture. So you keep posing them and I will keep ignoring them. I suggest that  you stick to form and continue to ignore mine too.

You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual act.

Strange that there is nothing in the commandments or the whole of the bible that condemns pedophilia. I wonder, is this why it is rife in most religious cults? 
#129
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@Tradesecret
Perhaps I have not quoted as you wanted me to.

That's right you haven't. It makes it appear that I am saying what you in fact have said. So unless you learn to quote in context and as the conversation has unfolded, your wasting your own fkn time trying to exchange with me. 

Meantime, You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual acts.

#130
Tradesecret
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@Salixes
So, let's get this straight. God had nothing to do with homos becoming homos. They just got that way from their own free will after humanity fell into sin. Of course you are not saying that in as much words that homosexuality is a sin....it was just a coincidence that homosexuals came to be....ooooh let's say, a day after the fall of humanity.
Homosexuals as they exist, exist in two kinds. One kind in that they choose homosexuality. The second kind are probably born that way. (Kinsey's Report, the paramount study on homosexual behaviour and often quoted by homosexuals including the former High Court Justice Kirby in Australia  seems to indicate that EVERY person in the world is somewhere on a line between pure homosexual and pure heterosexual.) Both however, from the biblical position have arisen from the fall of humanity into its sinful estate. As humanity becomes and more in kind with sin, then it becomes more and more depraved. What was originally pure and good has become distorted. This touches every aspect of human life (some would add animal and plant life) so that no one is pure and without sin. This means everyone is distorted and depraved. This includes the so called religious person in the religious life, even the one striving to do all he or she can to do right. 

Is homosexuality a sin? Yes. But so is heterosexuality when it debases family and the image of God. So is going to church when it debases the image of God and turns it into a joke and a mockery like some of the Catholic priests. 

Sheer coincidence right? Because after all you just love homos and there is nothing sinful about them at all.
It's just that everyone fell into sin and perhaps God was being just a little homophobic when he just so happened to discriminate against homosexuals when what he really meant to say was, "for anyone to fall into sin is an abomination".
I have never said there was nothing sinful about homosexuals. I have said and maintained that homosexuality is a sin and a departure from God's plan and purpose for this world. This does not mean I hate them. Nor does it mean that homosexuals are pure evil. I do not go around shooting them or telling them that they deserve to die. I don't hit them or mock them.  In fact I act for them - often pro bono and represent them to the best of my ability. I invite them home to my table and eat with them.  I share a beer with them.  I have said that I am confident that there will be homosexuals in heaven. I certainly would never discriminate purely on the basis of someone's so called orientation. How can you call any of that hatred? 

After all, when God started churning out the first homo-erectus (and I'm not talking about Gays with hard-ons) from his pottery wheel about 1.6 million years ago (4000 Christian years) morals and ethics hadn't been invented and it was fairly commonplace to consider some people as queer.
Such childish responses do not deserve answers.  

Have I encapsulated the thrust of your argument right there?
You only demonstrate you don't have a clue about what I think, let alone my argument. 



#131
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@Stephen
That's right you haven't. It makes it appear that I am saying what you in fact have said. So unless you learn to quote in context and as the conversation has unfolded, your wasting your own fkn time trying to exchange with me. 
LOL @ your little dummy spit. 


Meantime, You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything in the whole universe then he created homosexuals and then called it an "abomination" then he ordered capital punishment  for those who participate in homosexual acts.

Answered - so obviously you don't have a response. I accept your concession. 
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#132
Salixes
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@Tradesecret
I have never said there was nothing sinful about homosexuals. I have said and maintained that homosexuality is a sin and a departure from God's plan
"I never said that the sky was red. I have said and maintained that the sky is red".


#133
ethang5
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@Stephen
And yet you keep dodging the question of whether God created your loony threads. Why?

Because I have given up being the slightest interested in your bullshit questions
You dodged my questions on my first post to you liar. And you dodge all questions to you, not just mine.

your wasting your own fkn time trying to exchange with me. 
Lol. I told you long ago that I was just going to toss you for lolz. Have you forgotten?

You have to get over the fact that if you are going to persist that "god" created everything
I'm over your repeated lie that I said God created everything. That's why you have to dodge my clear question, If I think God created everything, how come I know God didn't create your loony threads?

You have to fake a position for me because you are empty and dishonest. You run away because you are empty. You are a fraud, and I show you so.

And while you just run away and respam your debunked post, people all over the world keep loving and worshipping God.

If your argument was strong, you would be able and willing to defend it. But your position is weak. Lame. That's why you lie. That's why you run. That's why you spam.

And that's why I can toss you for lolz like pizza boy tosses pizza dough. It's not tiring because you're empty and therefore not heavy.
#134
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@Salixes
I have never said there was nothing sinful about homosexuals. I have said and maintained that homosexuality is a sin and a departure from God's plan
"I never said that the sky was red. I have said and maintained that the sky is red".


Did you never learn to read? The word "nothing" in my first sentence is curiously missing from your parody which I have underlined for your convenience. Missing that one word changes the entire meaning of the sentence. Please remind all of us what a double negative does for a sentence. Come back when you learn to read. A good book to read is "How to read a book". It may well provide you with a better grasp of language, logic, rhetoric, and genre. 


#135
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@ethang5
And that's why I can toss you for lolz like pizza boy tosses pizza dough.

Oh get over yourself, you pompous deceitful liar. You couldn't toss a pancake in an over-sized pan.
#136
ethang5
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@Stephen
Everyday I toss a fruitcake with an undersized brain.

You have to fake a position for me because you are empty and dishonest. You run away because you are empty. You are a fraud, and I show you so.

And while you just run away and respam your debunked post, people all over the world keep loving and worshipping God.

If your argument was strong, you would be able and willing to defend it. But your position is weak. Lame. That's why you lie. That's why you run. That's why you spam.

Till you gain integrity and address questions to you like a man, instead of running like a coward, you will get tossed for the entertainment of the Gentle Readers.

Smile. You're on Dart TV.
#137
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@ethang5

Everyday I toss a fruitcake with an undersized brain.

Oh behave. You have proven nothing, shouting god can't do no wrong every time your on the backfoot doesn't , and will not ever, win you an argument.

But this is all you are left with once your excuses for your gods clumsy behavior is exposed for what it really is.  Your god is an absolute twat, popoff. he is forgetful, and his creation is full of MASSIVE!!!!!! flaws.

Get over it.

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#138
Salixes
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@Tradesecret
Did you never learn to read? The word "nothing" in my first sentence is curiously missing from your parody which I have underlined for your convenience. Missing that one word changes the entire meaning of the sentence. Please remind all of us what a double negative does for a sentence. Come back when you learn to read. A good book to read is "How to read a book". It may well provide you with a better grasp of language, logic, rhetoric, and genre. 


Never mind about the why's, whats, and wherefores.

You said: "I have said and maintained that homosexuality is a sin and a departure from God's plan"

You are homophobic and bigoted against homosexuals.

It's quite alright to come out and admit it you know. We all have our weaknesses.

For example, I have a weakness in buying expensive guitars and hitting the Tequilla.
But at least I don't skirt around the issue by saying "Oh well, it depends what you define as expensive, and you should look up the true meaning of "guitar", oh, and for all you know, I only have one shot of Jose Cuervo every week (even though it is more like one bottle every weekend).......etc.

Yes, we can all have fun by taunting with syntaxes but in the end, who are you fooling?

Yup, you guessed it. God.

Most folk nowadays get peed off with the daunting reality that everywhere one goes one is being watched (and recorded) by surveillance cameras. You can't even pick your nose anymore.

But I could only imagine what it would be like to feel that not only every single little thing one does is being watched (and recorded) but also every thought and intention that goes through one's head.
It must be one heck of a mindfu*k.




#139
ethang5
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@Salixes
But at least I don't skirt around the issue by saying "Oh well, it depends what you define as expensive,
No, you skirt around the issue by dodging it completely and never answering. Is that more honorable to you?

Dude, really, when you have nothing to say, don't post. Sal at least has his compulsion to blame.
#140
Tradesecret
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@Salixes
Never mind about the why's, whats, and wherefores.
Thanks Willows, I accept your concession of not actually pursuing the topic. 

You said: "I have said and maintained that homosexuality is a sin and a departure from God's plan"
Ok. 

You are homophobic and bigoted against homosexuals.
No I am not. I don't fear homosexuals. I don't hate homosexuals. I am not violent towards homosexuals. I am not bigoted towards homosexuals. I know you have difficulty reading but I think that is quite clear. Even for you to understand. 

It's quite alright to come out and admit it you know. We all have our weaknesses.
Yes, I too have weaknesses. But being intimidated by you is not one. Or admitting to lies and fabrications for that matter.

For example, I have a weakness in buying expensive guitars and hitting the Tequilla.
But at least I don't skirt around the issue by saying "Oh well, it depends what you define as expensive, and you should look up the true meaning of "guitar", oh, and for all you know, I only have one shot of Jose Cuervo every week (even though it is more like one bottle every weekend).......etc.
Not sure how this paragraph is relevant. I don't think and have never argued that defining homosexuality or orientation is definitive for my thinking. 
Nor do I skirt around the issue. I, like everyone else in this world, understand right and wrong in a particular way. How I come to the conclusion of what is right and wrong is different to yours. I happen to be one who says God determines it. You happen to be one who says "no, let me eat the fruit and determine it for myself". This is where you just don't get it. It is not science which determines the why of homosexuality, it has never reached a consensus or a true conclusion.  Society might think it determines right and wrong, but it will change its loyalties just like it has many times in the past. I take the Bible's understanding as God's position. I am content with that. Unlike you I am not obsessed with sex and understand that right and wrong is far greater in extent than merely a sexual orientation, it covers everything. 

Yes, we can all have fun by taunting with syntaxes but in the end, who are you fooling?
I just picked up on the fact that you cannot read properly and that you jump to conclusions falsely. You make it fun by grabbing the hook with both hands. 

Yup, you guessed it. God.
A non-sequitur. 

Most folk nowadays get peed off with the daunting reality that everywhere one goes one is being watched (and recorded) by surveillance cameras. You can't even pick your nose anymore.
God is not a security camera. The comparison is absurd. 


But I could only imagine what it would be like to feel that not only every single little thing one does is being watched (and recorded) but also every thought and intention that goes through one's head.
It must be one heck of a mindfu*k.


I imagine for you it must be a mind @#$. Not for me. You see once you understand it is about grace and not law, it changes everything. I don't have anything to hide from God because God is not going to judge me for my rights and wrongs. He is going to judge me according to the merits of Christ. On the other hand, you pray everyday to a God asking God to make sure God is not real. That is just weird. And then you hope against hope that if you got it wrong and God is real that he is a God of love and won't send you anywhere nasty. But in the back of your mind, you know that a God of love as you want to purport is a nonsense and that God actually might care about right and wrong and dealing with it in a just manner. Then you hope like crazy that you are not as bad as that paedophile or that God sees your wrongs in a different light than that murdering scumbag Adolph Hitler. At the end of the day, you are no different to the Jews in the OT or the Pharisees - you believe in salvation by works or salvation by the law. And this is why the thought of a God who sees all and knows all and is all powerful as such a barbaric and evil bars $$#%. 

You do because, you know He is going to look at you and judge you - and you wont have an answer. 

I , on the other hand see that same God as loving and caring and full of hope and grace. I see him as a holy God who will always do what is just and right. And I can do that because of this thing called grace. When you start to understand grace, it changes everything. This is why your foolishness in respect of attempting to paint Christians as homophobic is an absurdity. You do it from the position of law - not from grace.