Should Justin Trudeau seek revenge on Iran?

Author: DynamicSquid

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#31
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
lol you prefer treating American allies like equals rather than holding them accountable. That says alot about you. 
I prefer to treat allied independent nations as equals rather than try to give orders to them. You're right, that tells you i'm not a dick. 

#32
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@HistoryBuff
You make a lot of noise while surrendering.
#33
bmdrocks21
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@HistoryBuff
Those targets are based on a cold war world where the possibility of a war with russia was very real. Even without spending 2% NATO countries spend more than most of the rest of the world. 


So, should NATO be disbanded?

Also, Russia has been very imperialistic as of late. Crimea ring a bell? Ukraine probably wouldn't exist if Germany was leader of the free world.

Contribution to what exactly? how does spending a billions on tanks actually accomplish anything? They aren't at war. There is little to no chance of them getting into a war because collectively, NATO massively outguns everyone else. 

You see, you say that spending billions on the military is bad, but.... then you mention how nobody will get into a fight with them because they "outgun" everyone else. If they keep under-contributing, they probably won't. You wonder why we outgun everyone else? Because the US props them all up.

The US invasion of Iraq created the power vacuum. That's on Bush. 

Our invasion did not create the power vacuum, Obama's mishandling of pulling out troops did.

Help how? By bombing women and children and creating more terrorists? Because that is what america is doing.

They can help however they see fit.

How exactly is that? He has had to be arm twisted at every step into doing anything at all about russia. 
Obama was weak against Russian aggression against Ukraine, he allowed the Russian oil industry to boom, and Trump is pushing for higher NATO contributions just to name a few.

lol you prefer treating american allies like crap than treating them like equals. That says alot about you. 

I prefer that a president sticks up for his country, yes. No pride in your country, says a lot about you.



#34
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@bmdrocks21
So, should NATO be disbanded?
No. But out spending any potential rivals by 5 to 1 is ridiculous. 

Also, Russia has been very imperialistic as of late. Crimea ring a bell? Ukraine probably wouldn't exist if Germany was leader of the free world.
Umm what? America did nothing to help Ukraine.

ou see, you say that spending billions on the military is bad, but.... then you mention how nobody will get into a fight with them because they "outgun" everyone else. If they keep under-contributing, they probably won't. You wonder why we outgun everyone else? Because the US props them all up.
So your argument is that you have to massively over spend, or don't spend anything? Even without the US, the rest of NATO still massively outspends russia on their militaries. 

Our invasion did not create the power vacuum, Obama's mishandling of pulling out troops did.
No. The invasion of Iraq shattered the power structures there. America temporarily filled that vacuum by acting as an imperial power. When obama tried to put a stop that imperialism the republicans were pushing, the situation continued to deteriorate. Bush shattered the region. Bush created the situation where ISIS could gain power. 

Help how? By bombing women and children and creating more terrorists? Because that is what america is doing.

They can help however they see fit.
That's just the problem. America hates how they want to help. You can't stop terrorism by murdering women and children. Every time the US drone strikes a funeral, they kill a handful of terrorist and make dozens more. The only way to really stop terrorism is with peace and property. You can't do that by drone striking everyone and tearing up peace deals.

Obama was weak against Russian aggression against Ukraine, he allowed the Russian oil industry to boom, and Trump is pushing for higher NATO contributions just to name a few.
basically, he deployed troops in areas that already had nato troops. He bullied and pissed off america's allies weakening the alliance. And he happened to be president while america was producing more oil. 

Oh yes, those are some terrifying acts against ruissia. Lol do you even read these things? Nothing in this list are actually harmful to russia. 

I prefer that a president sticks up for his country, yes. No pride in your country, says a lot about you.
more slander without substance. You want america to bully and harass countries. That isn't sticking up for your country. That is just shitting on other countries and making it that much harder for america to get things it wants. 
#35
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@HistoryBuff

I prefer that a president sticks up for his country, yes. No pride in your country, says a lot about you.
more slander without substance.
Then you said this in our other thread:

Great in the world power sense of the word (ex alexander the great). Not in a morality sense. America has pretty well always been an imperialist amoral country. 

And you wonder why I say you have no pride in your country? LMFAO
#36
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@bmdrocks21
I prefer that a president sticks up for his country, yes. No pride in your country, says a lot about you.
more slander without substance.
Then you said this in our other thread:
no i didn't. 

Great in the world power sense of the word (ex alexander the great). Not in a morality sense. America has pretty well always been an imperialist amoral country. 

And you wonder why I say you have no pride in your country? LMFAO
Because I know history better than you do? 
#37
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@HistoryBuff
no i didn't. 

You didn't what? You 100% said that we were imperialistic and amoral.

Because I know history better than you do? 

Not really, if you are calling us an amoral nation. Maybe we should have just let the uncivilized, murderous tribes retain control of most of the continent. Would the world have been a better place then?
#38
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@bmdrocks21
You didn't what? You 100% said that we were imperialistic and amoral.
America is definitely imperialistic. Are you attempting to deny that?

And yes america is amoral (please note I did not say immoral). It does things that benefit it politically and financially at the expense of others. The US government doesn't give a shit if they have to kill people to spread their political influence and power. Or to just make more money for the politicians calling the shots. 

For example, Trump is continuing to support the Saudi genocide in Yemen because he makes alot of money from the Saudis. He is helping them murder women and children for money. 
#39
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@HistoryBuff
Ok, you can disagree with Trump support of said genocide. That is one president. You characterized our entire history as amoral, which I disagree with. 

We have been somewhat imperialistic, but I'd argue that 9/10 of those made the world a much better place than had we not. Again, if we left it to warring tribes, the world would probably be a worse place than it is today. Our country certainly would.
#40
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@bmdrocks21
Ok, you can disagree with Trump support of said genocide. That is one president. You characterized our entire history as amoral, which I disagree with. 
America invaded Iraq for no reason. It invaded afganistan when it could have avoided it. It invaded Vietnam for stupid reasons killing millions. It overthrows democratically elected governments, backs murderous dictators etc. I can go on and on with examples of terrible things america has done. I don't mean to say that america is evil. Most countries act in an amoral way. But america has done shitier things recently than most of them and most of them don't pretend like they are some beacon of morality like america does. 

We have been somewhat imperialistic, but I'd argue that 9/10 of those made the world a much better place than had we not.
invading iraq made the world worse. Invading afganistan certainly made afganistan worse. Invading vietnam made everything worse. overthrowing democracies made them worse. Backing murderous dictators made things much worse for their people they were murdering. 

America does what it is america's (or usually american politician's) best interests. The US government doesn't care if something is moral or just. They care about power and money. If murdering women and children will get them that, then they will murder them. 
#41
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@HistoryBuff
I agree that recent Middle Eastern wars haven't been moral, but outside of some recent crap, the vast majority of what we have done has been moral.

I'm not sure how us opposing Northern Vietnam was immoral. In the end, it just delayed genocidal actions taken by the North, but I don't believe that our actions would by any measure considered immoral.

Not entirely sure that overthrowing dictators (or as you called them "democracies") was a bad thing, either. In some cases, yes. But assuming that just because they were elected somehow means it should be left alone isn't a good thing, either.
#42
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@bmdrocks21
I'm not sure how us opposing Northern Vietnam was immoral.
North Vietnam was a creation of the US. That country should never have existed. The US promised that there would be elections and the country would be unified under the winner. When they realized that Ho Chi Minh was wildly popular and would easily win, they cancelled the elections and backed a corrupt regime the people hated. They then fought a war killing huge numbers of people to keep that corrupt regime in power. There was nothing moral about the vietnam war. 

Not entirely sure that overthrowing dictators (or as you called them "democracies") was a bad thing
the CIA arranged the overthrow of Guatemala's democratically elected government. They did this because the government wanted to forcibly buy land that an american company wasn't using and were leaving uncultivated. They toppled a democracy to protect a corporation. 

#43
Dr.Franklin
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he wont do anything, he is afriad of the muslims
#44
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#45
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@Greyparrot
oh boy canada is fucked
Topic's author
#46
DynamicSquid
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@Dr.Franklin
Yeah, lol

Canada's gonna give Iran a couple billion soon...

But seriously I'm actually made at Trudeau...
#47
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@DynamicSquid
Simply put, he hasn't got the balls or the chutzpah to do anything about it. He is more afraid of his constituency for what they might think.
#48
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@DynamicSquid
yeah they will
#49
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@sadolite
I hope he finishes his transition soon.  Maybe he'll tan to look middle eastern so he can relate better.  Sadly this is what they are trying to make the U.S. into.  Wonder when they will open up their borders to the "refugees"?
How lucky are though, bordering the U.S. and nothing to the north.
This lack of response could really haunt them.