Open Borders

Author: rbelivb

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TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
In terms of literal citizenship, yes. In a more philosophical sense, he could or could not be. I don't know if he is maliciously lying or if what he said was wrong at all.
What he said is wrong is a matter of values.
So you are saying even though Nick is anti-American history he is still American?
Not by your definition, no.
Please do find a different definition. I found almost all of them pretty much be the same as the Merriam Webster one. 
Like I said, there are even big disagreements among conservatives. There are disagreements among Jews and Christians. These are groups of millions. America has 317 million people, so it would be incredibly difficult to find something they all agree on. Not to mention, you would have to interview 317 million people to actually know if they are 'unified' which would be very difficult to do.
I didn't make the claim that "We are unified in our culture", you did.
that means we weren't unified.
Under my definition yes.
Name one thing an entire country consciously agrees. 
What do you mean by consciously? 
bmdrocks21
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@TheRealNihilist
What he said is wrong is a matter of values.
So you are saying even though Nick is anti-American history he is still American?


He still has American citizenship. We have a freedom of speech as American citizens. So, even doing something immoral and anti-American, you still keep your citizenship.

If you want me to find something that everyone in America agrees on, I physically cannot. I can find trends that the majority of people are in agreement about.

Consciously just means that it is something they choose to believe.
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Greyparrot
So you're okay with the elimination of the Native American culture, both North and South?

Wait, I am confused now. Are you saying that immigration is literally the same thing as genocide somehow or are you trying to draw some convoluted metaphor?

Greyparrot
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Literally none of the languages spoken 300 years ago in North and South America survive today except maybe a handful of isolated tribes in South America.

If you want to conflate the destruction of cultures with genocide, then I have no idea where the line would be to tap the brakes.
TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
If you want me to find something that everyone in America agrees on, I physically cannot. I can find trends that the majority of people are in agreement about.
Can you give me a hypothetical instead?
Consciously just means that it is something they choose to believe.
Your question was "Name one thing an entire country consciously agrees."

No. Don't know why you wanted me to answer it. 
bmdrocks21
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@TheRealNihilist
Your question was "Name one thing an entire country consciously agrees."

No. Don't know why you wanted me to answer it. 
Because if you need everyone to agree on something to be considered unified, that would mean that literally no country on earth is unified.



I would say we are more unified than a country having a civil war, wouldn't you? Even though we aren't in perfect agreement about political issues?
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Greyparrot
If you want to conflate the destruction of cultures with genocide, then I have no idea where the line would be to tap the brakes.

The line would be somewhere well before 80% population reduction I think. That is about the estimated population reduction that the Native Americans underwent during colonialism.

Please keep in mind that you are the one that brought up Native Americans under colonialism and said that is an apt comparison for modern immigration. I am not the one that did that.

You didn't answer my question though... Were you being litteral or trying to fashion some sort of metaphor that simply went over my head?
Greyparrot
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The line would be somewhere well before 80% population reduction I think. 

That's nice. But it still does not explain why the remaining 20% lost every shred of the culture they had 300 years ago.
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@Greyparrot
I guess what I am trying to say is If you want to conflate a few Mexicans taking your nephew's job at Taco Bell or your uncle's roofing company with the destruction of cultures and actual genocide, then I have no idea where the line would be to tap the brakes.

Greyparrot
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Probably about the time where my neighbor starts flying the Mexican flag.
TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
Because if you need everyone to agree on something to be considered unified, that would mean that literally no country on earth is unified.
Yes but smaller groups as in two people are unified together to go on a date. The word can still have meaning. It doesn't need to be used to cover a lot of people if it doesn't meet the bar. I guess it can work in much larger groups but I think the more people involved the less likely it will be unified. 
I would say we are more unified than a country having a civil war, wouldn't you? Even though we aren't in perfect agreement about political issues?
Depending on the time frame and the data around it. For the sake of this I'll say sure they were more together but not unified. I don't know how I feel about you using more unified. Unified by itself means together as one and more added to that defeats the purpose of the word. Unify is to be together as one. Adding that more to together as one doesn't go in line with math. Example:

100% = Unified
101% = more unified?

Percentages go up to 100% not 101% if we are saying how much everything adds up too as in the complete portion of a cake. I don't know where you got the extra piece of cake when it certainly doesn't fit into this complete cake. 
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Greyparrot
Being permitted to fly a foreign flag on private property... Total loss of cultural heritage...

Hmm...

Flag on private property... Death of over three quarters of your race...

Flag... Genocide...

Flag...

Yeah you're right. Totally credible comparison, I can see that now. I don't know what I was thinking before. Boy do I feel silly.
Greyparrot
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@Discipulus_Didicit

Tener permiso para enarbolar una bandera extranjera en propiedad privada ... Pérdida total del patrimonio cultural ...Hmm ...Bandera en propiedad privada ... Muerte de más de tres cuartos de su raza ...Bandera ... Genocidio ...Bandera...Si, tienes razón. Comparación totalmente creíble, puedo ver eso ahora. No sé lo que estaba pensando antes.

Chico, me siento tonto.

bmdrocks21
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@TheRealNihilist
Ok, I guess we shall go with 'more together'. Let's just pretend that is what I meant to say the entire time. 
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Greyparrot
Greyparrot unsuccessfully attempting to get me to use Google Translate... My wife and children dead of smallpox because they used the wrong blankets...

Juan from down the street got that management position at Taco Bell instead of my cousin Jimmy... Trail of Tears...

Dude, I probably don't even disagree with you too much about immigration policy. Just trying to make the point that when you overdramatize things by saying that Mexicans are literally going to go full genocide you just sound retarded and you make everyone that happens to agree with you that limits should be placed on immigration sound retarded by association. Please stop.
Greyparrot
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Lol, you're the one bringing up genocide into a discussion about the elimination of culture. North and South American Native culture was not destroyed by smallpox. They were destroyed by the loss of their laws, land, language, and religion...oh and strip malls.


¿Todavía amas las fronteras abiertas?

bmdrocks21
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@Greyparrot
Yeah, there are large enclaves of unassimilated immigrants in the Southwest. Unless you stop adding a few hundred thousand every year, they will never assimilate.
Greyparrot
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@bmdrocks21

¿Todavía amas las fronteras abiertas?
bmdrocks21
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@Greyparrot
*America 2025*

When you bring in the third-world, you get third-world problems. 
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@bmdrocks21
Third World

I think that you are underestimating people, and over estimating the U.S.A..

With maybe a sprinkling of old fashioned bias and paranoia thrown into the mix.

Given that the modern  U.S.A. is a nation founded on  immigration, this would seem to be a tad hypocritical.






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@Greyparrot



Diversity works!!!!!???

"Diversity is Our Strength"

TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
Okay.
ResurgetExFavilla
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@rbelivb
In my opinion, free movement is the most important human right. When individuals are given the widest possible horizon of people who they may associate with, the boundaries of human creativity are expanded. Free movement of labour is an essential component of the market, and the existence of multiple cultures within a society reduces the capacity for any one corporate entity to gain a foothold and consolidate its power into a monopoly.

Disagree with this entirely. The left constantly points out that the right uses cultural friction to divide the working class against itself and reduce solidarity, and they they're right. Because of this, multiple cultures within a society make it much easier for a corporate entity to solidify its power because it creates multiple fracture points in the working class for them to exploit (which is why all of these megacorporations are so big on multiculturalism). Free movement of labor is not 'an essential component of the market'; that statement is prima facie absurd since markets have existed long before labor mobility has. In fact, free trade theory as put forth by Ricardo rather explicitly states that things like comparative advantage fall apart if capital and labor are mobile (in the modern day, they both are). Nowadays, both of those things lead to a race to the bottom as far as wages are concerned, and also causes a feedback loop. Lower wages coupled with readily available contraception leads to lower birth rates among the working class, which leads to a labor shortage. In order to stave off the wage increases which this would normally cause, we end up in a situation of easy credit and imported cheap/scab labor. The bad combination of a widening wealth gap, a working class increasingly incapable of organization, and endless credit bubbles and speculation on bad debt severely destabilizes governments. Look for Renaissance Florence for a salient example: oligarchy, endless war, bread and circuses, extreme poverty, extreme urbanization, and overleveraged banks which become reliant on government funds.

When individuals are given the widest possible horizon of people who they may associate with, the boundaries of human creativity are expanded.
People aren't more creative nowadays. Far from it. The combination of multicult and the metastatization of pressure to conform within online/urban/suburban communities has lead to the bleeding of separate, vibrant cultures into grey, consumerized porridge, It's the exact opposite. The big city is where people who have the same kind of soul clot together into little self-reinforcing cliques. When you are forced to interact with a small number of unique people and are not allowed to choose from a vast pool, then you are forced to come to terms with human frailty, differences, and foibles, which is the seed of so many great creative works.
disgusted
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@bmdrocks21
Isolationism, paranoia and xenophobia your home is safe with right wing "christian" Americans
Greyparrot
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@disgusted
Tell me where you live since I know you keep your house unlocked.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
It's so tragic that most people have lost all skepticism of people in power.

The Milgram experiments prove that humans are just not biologically capable of trusting authority and power, yet most blindly follow people with pedigrees and power.

It's revealing that the left thinks Trump got voted in because of his "celebrity status and wealth" when the real reason he got voted in was because the Authority in Power hated and feared him.
bmdrocks21
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@zedvictor4
Historically we have had periods where we let in a lot of immigrants and then we close off immigration for a bit. We are long due to close the borders for a time. 

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@disgusted
Isolationism, paranoia and xenophobia your home is safe with right wing "christian" Americans

Yes, I am an isolationist. Are you an interventionist?

Paranoia? How so?

Xenophobia? I want immigrants who won't be a public charge. That generally means we shouldn't let in third-world immigrants. In what world is fiscal responsibility xenophobic?

What does "Christianity" and "right-wing" have to do with anything?

Please, next time, plan out your response so you can express your thoughts coherently.
Greyparrot
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@bmdrocks21
What a great quote describing the gated housed limousine liberal politicians.

"Diversity for thee, but not for me."

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@Greyparrot
Yeah, they pissed themselves when Trump said he would sent migrants to sanctuary cities.