Anti-Abortion = Anti-Personal-Privacy

Author: 3RU7AL

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TheRealNihilist
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@3RU7AL
At conception, a living cell combines with another living cell and their dna is mixed together and the hybrid cells begin to multiply.
Are you saying life begins at conception?
I believe the real question is, "at what point is it anyone else's (other than the mother's) business or concern?"
This is under the axiom we ought to care about a choice of a mother over a life right? 
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
many immigrants don't have or can't produce a birth certificate....then again at one time there was no such thing so....
I think he was using US as an example not some 3rd world country. Can you demonstrate most immigrants don't have birth certificates? The reason I stated most is that it is unfair to have this as an argument when it is not correct for most immigrants. 

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some how's that?
doesn't negate the point that just because someone doesn't have a birth certificate doesn't mean they don't still have rights, that better for you now?
3RU7AL
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@TheRealNihilist
Are you saying life begins at conception?
Life begins BEFORE conception.

I believe the real question is, "at what point is it anyone else's (other than the mother's) business or concern?"
This is under the axiom we ought to care about a choice of a mother over a life right? 
Why ought we care about a choice a mother makes within her own private sovereign territory?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
doesn't negate the point that just because someone doesn't have a birth certificate doesn't mean they don't still have rights, that better for you now?
If you call the police and you can't prove you're a citizen, you may be detained.

Only citizens are protected by the law.
TheRealNihilist
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@3RU7AL
Life begins BEFORE conception.
I meant human life. When does it start?
Why ought we care about a choice a mother makes within her own private sovereign territory?
You are just dodging the question and instead returning one to me. You haven't stated the problem with my question so do you want to state the problem with my question or answer it? 
TheRealNihilist
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
some how's that?
doesn't negate the point that just because someone doesn't have a birth certificate doesn't mean they don't still have rights, that better for you now?

I am not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying stating immigrants without quantifying with like half, most, some etc does leave it open to interpretation. This can be over-exaggerating an example or the opposite. 


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@TheRealNihilist
it was an over exaggeration, how about refugees, how many of them have i.d. and or birth certificates?  illegals crossing the border?
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@3RU7AL
If you call the police and you can't prove you're a citizen, you may be detained.

Only citizens are protected by the law.
naw, you still have the right to remain silent, a right to an attorney etc etc  you have to fight, for your right, to ppaaarrrtttaaayyyy!


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@TheDredPriateRoberts
it was an over exaggeration, how about refugees, how many of them have i.d. and or birth certificates?  illegals crossing the border?
I don't know what you are saying here. Are you agreeing that saying just immigrants leaves you open to people simply make up if it is a lot or not?


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@TheRealNihilist
the number/amount is irrelevant to the point of whether someone does or does not need a birth certificate to have rights.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
the number/amount is irrelevant to the point of whether someone does or does not need a birth certificate to have rights.
Yes but that doesn't address what I just realized that you said "many immigrants" don't have birth certificates. Do you have that as a percentage or per 1,000 or something? 

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@TheRealNihilist
Life begins BEFORE conception.
I meant human life. When does it start?
The sperm is 100% human and 100% alive.

The egg is also 100% human and 100% alive.

Why ought we care about a choice a mother makes within her own private sovereign territory?
You are just dodging the question and instead returning one to me. You haven't stated the problem with my question so do you want to state the problem with my question or answer it? 
You mean this question?

This is under the axiom we ought to care about a choice of a mother over a life right? 
No.  Like all moral theory, it's a simple matter of jurisdiction.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Only citizens are protected by the law.
naw, you still have the right to remain silent, a right to an attorney etc etc  you have to fight, for your right, to ppaaarrrtttaaayyyy!
This is not true.

In immigration court, you do not have the right to an attorney and you are not presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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The sperm is 100% human and 100% alive.

The egg is also 100% human and 100% alive.
How did you determine that? 
No.  Like all moral theory, it's a simple matter of jurisdiction.
I asked about morals for a reason. 
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@3RU7AL
Above 
3RU7AL
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@TheRealNihilist
Please rephrase your questions.
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@3RU7AL
The sperm is 100% human and 100% alive.

The egg is also 100% human and 100% alive.
How did you get this conclusion?
No.  Like all moral theory, it's a simple matter of jurisdiction.
Rephrase this or put it into much simpler terms because I don't know how the first question need rephrasing. 
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@TheRealNihilist
The sperm is 100% human and 100% alive.

The egg is also 100% human and 100% alive.
How did you get this conclusion?
What is a human sperm made out of?

Human cells.

100% human cells.

Is a human sperm alive?

A human sperm can die, ipso-facto, it is alive if it isn't dead.

I'm not really sure how much more I can try and simplify this.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
TheRealNihilist
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@3RU7AL
Human cells.
What are you defining a human to be as? 
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@TheRealNihilist
What are you defining a human to be as? 
Anything that is living and comprised of 100% human cells.
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@3RU7AL
Anything that is living and comprised of 100% human cells.
What is human cells? 

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@TheRealNihilist
What is human cells? 
Cells that are part of (or grown from cells that were at one point part of) a human.
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@3RU7AL
Cells that are part of (or grown from cells that were at one point part of) a human.
So a chopped arm is a human? 

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@TheRealNihilist
So a chopped arm is a human? 
A chopped off human arm is 100% human but not alive.
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A chopped off human arm is 100% human but not alive.
So a human is still a human even if it is dead? 

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@3RU7AL
Just another question:

Anything that is living and comprised of 100% human cells.

What standard are you using to declare a thing having 100% human cells?
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@TheRealNihilist
What standard are you using to declare a thing having 100% human cells?
Take a biopsy of the object in question.

Send it to a laboratory.

Ask them if the sample is 100% human.
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@3RU7AL
I'd say "bestowed" upon issuance of a birth certificate.
Who or what creates rights if not the "bestowers"? And if they can be bestowed, can they not be rescinded?

What is a human sperm made out of?

Human cells.

100% human cells.

Is a human sperm alive?

A human sperm can die, ipso-facto, it is alive if it isn't dead.

I'm not really sure how much more I can try and simplify this.

Please let me know if you have any questions.


Yes, but a zygote has its own distinct human genome, where as a sperm cell shares its genome with its emitter. You can then argue that the sperm cell is merely an extension of its emitter, much like a finger, or an internal organ. The same cannot be said for the zygote.
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@Athias
Yes, but a zygote has its own distinct human genome, where as a sperm cell shares its genome with its emitter. You can then argue that the sperm cell is merely an extension of its emitter, much like a finger, or an internal organ. The same cannot be said for the zygote.
What is the source of the raw material that they zygote utilizes?