A very human "god " indeed.

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So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak. But Jacob replied, I will not let you go unless you bless me.

The man asked him, what is your name? Jacob, he answered. Then the man said, your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.

Jacob said; please tell me your name. But he replied, why do you ask my name?  Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, it is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”Genesis 32:24-30. NIV.

6 times!!! Jacob called this being a man. So unless we are going to contradict Jacob, call him a liar, say he was delusional, or accuse him of dreaming or simply making false claim  or not understanding what he had been wrestling with, then we have to take his word that he wrestled with a human that he simply called a "god"
 
It is all very human behaviour for anyone reading these verses. It appears very clear that these "gods" or at least this particular god was human in every way. He even used a dirty tactic to overcome his human opponent Jacob/ Is Ra El in this wrestling match.  But what is one to expect when it clearly explains to us in Genesis that we were created in the image of these very human "gods"-  plural. 
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@Stephen
Men were made in God's Image. It makes sense that He would appear similar.

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I look in the mirror, and when I think of my struggle with God, I realize that my struggle takes the form of wrestling with a man.
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@OoDart
Indeed , Jacob knew exactly what he was wrestling with: a human being just like himself. He told us this six times that it was " a man ". 
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@Stephen
This doesn't make God a man.

For example, if you were to see a small tree and mistakenly believe it to be a bush, and adamantly desired that someone look at it, you would not say, "Look at the bush-like tree over there!" You would say, "Look at the bush over there!"
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@OoDart
Your comparison is ridiculous besides, it would depend on what you do or or do not know  about trees and shrubs.

But of course this isn't the only time in the bible that these so called "gods" or lords  have been referred to as men is it? 

Genesis

18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the large trees of Mamre. Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent. It was the hottest time of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. So he quickly left the entrance to his tent to greet them. He bowed low to the ground.
3 He said, “My lord, if you are pleased with me, don’t pass me by. 4 Let me get you some water. Then all of you can wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat to give you strength. Then you can go on your way. I want to do this for you now that you have come to me.”

8 Then he brought some butter and milk and the calf that had been prepared. He served them to the three men. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.
16 The men got up to leave.
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom.

I make that four times!!!  that Abraham clearly describes these lords as MEN. Why are you insisting that he couldn't tell the difference between a man and what you call a "god"?


One can not avoid the fact that these MEN  eat, drink, wash and sleep and  do everything that a human does. This is because they are men. And he addressed  these MEN by the title of "lord" just like in the days of Mesopotamia. Not a mention of a "god" at all. Surly, the great father of the hebrews would have known what these approaching  beings were?  And he did,  as soon as he set eyes on them, they were "men".

So we have two accounts where two biblical patriarchs no less, have described these beings clearly as men. 
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@Stephen
God can appear however he desires. He has been a blinding light, a voice in the sky, a burning bush, and even a man.
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@Stephen
God certainly speaks through the things thst are made. Indeed, this is how we, as created beings living in creation interact with God. It is how God is revealed.
 
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@Mopac
this is how we, as created beings living in creation interact with God. 

This is simple nonsense. It appears to me that it is you and not Jacob and Abraham who cannot differentiate between what is man and what you believe a god to be and look like. 
You have offered nothing to explain why it is that both these biblical patriarchs clearly explain that they were talking , eating and wrestling with MEN yet you won't accept it. This is simple blind ignorance and denial coming from both of you.
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@Stephen
Look at youu telling us what we believe. How arrogant.

I will tell you what I believe. Scriptural interpretation outside of the church is invalid.

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@Stephen

Indeed , Jacob knew exactly what he was wrestling with: a human being just like himself. He told us this six times that it was " a man ".
In each example you've given in this thread, you're referencing a description given by the author through the eyes of a human that gives the description according to their perception.

Take the example of any Frankenstein movie where someone encounters the main subject of the movie. An adult might describe him as a monster, whereas a child might describe him as a giant man.

Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

How do you think an individual would describe an angel in this scenario? Obviously the angel in this case is in the form of a human. Not a 10 foot angel with wings, shining like a bright light, etc.

Now compare Joshua 5:13-15

13 Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?”
14 “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord[e] have for his servant?”
15 The commander of the Lord’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

with

 2 Kings 6:17

And Elisha prayed, "Open his eyes, LORD, so that he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.


in this case the young man is seeing angelic beings in the spirit realm. The angels in this case did not appear as mere men. There was no confusion as to who the army fighting for them actually were.

This actually legitimizes the testimony of Jacob wrestling with the man.

In a fictional novel, a fairy is a fairy, a goblin is a goblin, an elf is an elf, a troll is a troll.

The only time a troll may get confused as a human would be in internet discussion forums.
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@Mopac
Look at youu telling us what we believe. How arrogant.

No it is you telling me what you believe. Go and read what I wrote at   post nine thoroughly. You are entitled to believe what you like . I am not attempting to change your mind about your beliefs. 

I will tell you what I believe. Scriptural interpretation outside of the church is invalid.

But I have not interpreted the scriptures have I/ I have simply highlighted what Jacob and Abraham tell us IN THE BIBLE!!!


I will tell you what I believe. Scriptural interpretation outside of the church is invalid.

And;

If this is the case why is it hat you refuse to take the Patriarchs Abraham and Jacob at their word. they are there and you was not. 
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@Stephen
Are you not wrestling a man when in striving for the purity  of heart to see God you take the ascetic path of subduing the passions? For when you see God, you see that your soul is saved.



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Maybe Jacob referring to God as "The MAN"  Is just a reassuring thing that, God is a MALE.......
God is obviously a God or his name wouldn't be God. 
So knowing if God being 100% a God or God being 50% MAN 50% GOD isn't the point they are trying to EMBED.

I think they just want us to know for a FACT that God is MALE. 
A MAN.

Who listens to rules and orders from a somewhat female God.? 






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@OoDart
Though, it's just as likely that Men/Women created God's in their own image.

Some might even say that it is in fact, more likely. 

It's the same old unresolvable argument.
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@zedvictor4
But this thread is assuming we believe what the Bible says.
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@Mopac
Are you not wrestling a man when in striving for the purity  of heart to see God you take the ascetic path of subduing the passions? For when you see God, you see that your soul is saved.

Nonsense.  This does not alter the stone cold fact that both these biblical characters categorically state that these encounters were with men. 
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@OoDart
But this thread is assuming we believe what the Bible says.


 No it doesn't . What ever gave you that idea.  I haven't assumed that you do or do not believe anything.  I have simply highlighted what THE BIBLE states. Am I wrong in assuming that all believers believe what is written in THE BIBLE!? I think I am right in assuming that is the case and won't mind being corrected.
If of course you do not believe what is written there in the bible, it doesn't alter the stone cold fact that those verses are written in the bible, regardless of whether you believe them or not. 

I happen to believe these biblical stories, but  I cannot prove them to be true either way.

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@Stephen
Interesting.

Alas, I'll say this again.

God can appear however he desires. He has been a blinding light, a voice in the sky, a burning bush, and even a man.

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@OoDart

God can appear however he desires. He has been a blinding light, a voice in the sky, a burning bush, and even a man.
Quite the shape shifter according to you then. But not to Abraham and Jacob, who, if the bible is to be believed actually met , spoke , ate , drank and wrestled with these MEN!
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@OoDart
Well, the bible was compiled by a variety of human beings, who probably all created a God in their own individual way.
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@zedvictor4
Well, the bible was compiled by a variety of human beings, who probably all created a God in their own individual way.


Maybe. But these are the earliest of patriarchs and I am sure they understood the difference between a human being and a shrub on fire.
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@Stephen
Blimey!  What does all that mean?



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@zedvictor4
Blimey!  What does all that mean?

Read post 7 above and try to keep up .


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@Stephen
@zedvictor4
The true meaning of scripture can only be revealed in Christ Jesus. In God becoming man, all of creation has been united to God. In dying, the last enemy, death, was faced, and in rising from the dead into eternity, even all things alive and dead have been united to that risen flesh of Christ. For God so loved the world that he came into the world as The Truth and The Light that reveals all things. So God is here, with us. Closer than our breath, and all things, past, present, and future have been united to divinity through the flesh of the very Word of God, by and through whom all things have been made and subsist in.

And we have a choice. To follow The Way, The Truth, and The Life. To live a life of repentance toward The Truth, and to abide in that Doctrine of Truth. Or to crucify Jesus Christ as we compromise what we ought to do in preference to the momentary and fleeting fulfillment of some base passion or convenience.




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@Stephen
So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak. But Jacob replied, I will not let you go unless you bless me.

The man asked him, what is your name? Jacob, he answered. Then the man said, your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.

Jacob said; please tell me your name. But he replied, why do you ask my name?  Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, it is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”Genesis 32:24-30. NIV.

6 times!!! Jacob called this being a man. So unless we are going to contradict Jacob, call him a liar, say he was delusional, or accuse him of dreaming or simply making false claim  or not understanding what he had been wrestling with, then we have to take his word that he wrestled with a human that he simply called a "god"
 
It is all very human behaviour for anyone reading these verses. It appears very clear that these "gods" or at least this particular god was human in every way. He even used a dirty tactic to overcome his human opponent Jacob/ Is Ra El in this wrestling match.  But what is one to expect when it clearly explains to us in Genesis that we were created in the image of these very human "gods"-  plural. 
What sort of ordinary man gets to rename another just because he has a wrestle with him? What sort of ordinary man can touch a person and it puts his joint out of whack? What sort of ordinary man is able to give blessings - just because you wrestle with him? What sort of ordinary man is described as God by a man? Indeed the alleged very ordinary man seems to call himself God, what sort of ordinary man calls himself god? What sort of ordinary man gets a placed named after him, just because he spared his life? 

It seems to me that despite the usage of the word man in this story, the man was very much not just ordinary or human in every way like us. I also think that your suggestion that a dirty tactic was used is - reading into the text based upon your own standards.  

Not really sure what your point is here - except perhaps to discredit some people's view and understanding of god. 
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@Tradesecret
Wrestling and setting fire to bushes.

This sort of behaviour doesn't do much for an omniscient god's credibility does it?
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@Tradesecret
What sort of ordinary man ? What sort of ordinary man ? What sort of ordinary man ? What sort of ordinary man ? what sort of ordinary man? 

You also use the the word man a lot too. Neither Abraham nor Jacob state that these men were ordinary. Indeed, on the contrary, they indicate that they are "lord" , which indicates that they were of some statutes above themselves like master and servant in those ancient days. "Lord" is simply a title and nothing more. It does not indicate a supernatural being although I would imagine anyone living at the time who was more intelligent than your average sand trotting tent dweller would be seen and accepted as a "lord".

Today,  here in the UK there are nearly one thousand of  these jumped up, pompous, self serving "lords" who expect every average joe to acknowledge their status. They too live in a very large house called the Lord's house,  it does not indicate that they are somehow supernatural beings. It means that they are definitely far more educated and knowledgeable than your average state school educated Asda shelf stacker. Other examples are pupil and teacher, forman and labourer, tutor and student. 

I personally believe that these men aka lords are simply a highly educated (advanced) species of man that some backward tent dwellers respected, admired and also feared.

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@zedvictor4
Wrestling and setting fire to bushes.This sort of behaviour doesn't do much for an omniscient god's credibility does it?


 No.