Animals and the Afterlife

Author: ludofl3x

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#211
secularmerlin
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@Fruit_Inspector
Skepticism is my baseline. My default position. The most logical position is one of credulity in the absence of sufficient evidence. If that isn't a worldview then you will have to explain the difference. 

As for empathy humans display ot. It is amongst the causes that govern our behavior. Do you disagree that humans display empathy? Because whatever its source unless you disagree that we have it I really don't need to demonstrate it. I have not in fact endorsed any source besides the one we can confirm, that the brain would seem to produce a subjective experience and that empathy is a part of that experience. Again if it is more than it seems that will have to be demonstrated to me.

#212
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@secularmerlin
I will assume that you meant incredulity and that was just a typo. Skepticism can be a tool used in obtaining knowledge, but a worldview is simply what you believe about the world. One way to classify it is to answer 4 basic questions:

  1. Where did we come from?
  2. Why are we here?
  3. What's wrong with the world?
  4. How do we make it right?

I would answer them this way:

  1. The universe, including humans, were created by God out of nothing.
  2. All of this creation, including humans, were created to glorify God.
  3. After the sin of the first humans, Adam and Eve, all humans are sinful or evil by nature and are under God's judgment.
  4. The death and resurrection of Jesus satisfied the punishment for sin for those who have faith in Him.

A materialistic worldview would typically follow something along these lines:

  1. We have no explanation for the existence of matter prior to the theory of a big bang, and humans are nothing more than complex clusters of molecules.
  2. No reason or purpose, except perhaps to consume resources.
  3. Essentially a lack of sufficient government or education.
  4. More government.
Skepticism does not explain anything, it is simply a method of discerning what is true. I want to know what you believe is actually true.

Because whatever its source unless you disagree that we have it I really don't need to demonstrate it.
But if immaterial concepts don't exist, then empathy doesn't exist. If you acknowledge that empathy exists, then you have to acknowledge that immaterial things exists. I am not asking you to demonstrate a source of empathy. I am asking you to demonstrate that the immaterial concept of empathy itself exists. The problem is that you can't do that if you don't believe that anything immaterial exists.

#213
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@Fruit_Inspector
Empathy is not immaterial. It is a brainstate and brains are physical. 

  1. Where did we come from? my parents had sex. 
  2. Why are we here? causation 
  3. What's wrong with the world? "wrongness" is quallia not quanta. It is subjective and there is no "wrong answer"
  4. How do we make it right? "Rightness is quallia not quanta. It is subjective and there is no "right answer"


#214
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@secularmerlin
Well you completely missed the point of a worldview but whatever, that's fine.

And how exactly would you define a brainstate?
#215
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@Fruit_Inspector
The universe, including humans, were created by God out of nothing.
Where did your god and your nothing come from?

#216
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@disgusted
Just to clarify, part of what you're asking is that you want me to explain where nothing came from?
#217
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@Fruit_Inspector
My question is quite succinct.
#218
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@disgusted
Yes the question is very succinct. I am just not sure how it is you expect me to explain the origination of nothing?
#219
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@Fruit_Inspector
He wants you to concede that the origin of your God is just as nonsensical as the way you try to explain the origin of reality with the God.
#220
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@Fruit_Inspector
The same way you would a god. Just make it up.
#221
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@disgusted
Ok...well then could you explain where matter came from without any use of speculation?
#222
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@Fruit_Inspector
I've never claimed any such knowledge, you have and you can't explain your claim. Wanna have another go? You claim that matter came from a god and nothing.
Where did your god and your nothing come from?

#223
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@disgusted
I've never claimed any such knowledge, you have and you can't explain your claim.
Well my point was that you either have to claim ignorance or make something up to explain where matter came from. It seems then that you're claiming ignorance so I'm not sure what gives you the audacity to claim someone else is wrong.

Now you obviously have a serious misunderstanding of the concept of "nothing" to think that it comes from something or somewhere. Nothing is nothing. It doesn't come from anything or anywhere...you know...because it's nothing. 

Person A: "Hey where'd you get that slinky?"
Person B: "I don't have a slinky?"
Person A: "I know but where'd you get it?"
Person B: "There's no slinky!"
Person A: "Yeah but where'd it come from?"

That would be a ridiculous conversation to have, right? Well you're Person A right now. Which means we're having a ridiculous conversation and it's not because of me.

#224
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@Fruit_Inspector
Well you completely missed the point of a worldview but whatever, that's fine.
Not at all a world view merely is a set of axiomatic guidelines that we use when interacting with or investigating the world.
And how exactly would you define a brainstate?
The current structure, chemistry and expression of neural pathways. Our thoughts and emotions would seem to be emergent qualities of brainstates.

734 days later

#225
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The death of a pet is just as hard to bear as the death of a loved one. But I believe in something more than God. I think that all beings turn into the matter after death and are reborn in another body. It doesn't matter if it's an animal or a human being. We don't remember the past life, just as we don't remember being born. I hope that my guinea pig is reborn in another pet's body. I noticed this article too late https://pawbility.com/can-guinea-pigs-eat-bananas/. It was my fault she died, and I can't forgive myself for that. Take better care of your pets.
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#226
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@SpringerHeather
I'm so sorry you lost your guinea pig, but you have to forgive yourself one of these days. 
#227
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@Fruit_Inspector
could you explain where matter came from without any use of speculation?
Asymmetry in the production of matter and anti matter particles in the early moments of the universe. 
#228
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@secularmerlin
Asymmetry in the production of matter and anti matter particles in the early moments of the universe.
That seems to assume though that matter and antimatter already existed. Without the use of speculation, where did matter and antimatter come from?
#229
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@Fruit_Inspector
Asymmetry in the production of matter and anti matter particles in the early moments of the universe.
That seems to assume though that matter and antimatter already existed. Without the use of speculation, where did matter and antimatter come from?

I said the production of matter and anti matter. That rather implies the opposite of preexisting. 
#230
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@secularmerlin
But what produced the matter and antimatter?
#231
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But what produced the matter and antimatter?
Physics
#232
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@Fruit_Inspector
Let's cut through the baloney shall we? You are asking "why is there stuff rather than no stuff?" and the answer is I don't know and neither do you. It is unknowable. Ineffable. Beyond our epistemological limitations as a species. 

#233
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@secularmerlin
Let's cut through the baloney shall we? You are asking "why is there stuff rather than no stuff?" and the answer is I don't know and neither do you. It is unknowable. Ineffable. Beyond our epistemological limitations as a species.
The point I was making was that the secularist must either speculate or claim ignorance as to why there is something rather than nothing. You've claimed you don't know, which I agree is a consistent answer.

But you made the claim that I also don't know. How do you know that for sure?
#234
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@Fruit_Inspector
The point I was making was that the secularist must either speculate or claim ignorance as to why there is something rather than nothing. 
This is true for every human being who has ever lived. You too must either speculate or claim ignorance. If that is a problem for me it is equally a problem for you. No humans know what happened before or even in the first few nanoseconds of the event known colloquially as the big bang.
you made the claim that I also don't know. How do you know that for sure?
No cosmological model claims to know what if anything caused the aforementioned event. Our mathematics break down before that point. The best we can do is to speculate. If you had that information you would already have the Nobel prize because that would be big news for the astrophysicist community. 
#235
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@secularmerlin
No cosmological model claims to know what if anything caused the aforementioned event.
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
-Genesis 1:1
#236
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@secularmerlin
Physics.

OK...So physics is a broad label we can variously apply.

But generally means the human internal appreciation of external events and their causes.

We do not know how matter was caused.

Current best answer is magic, rather than physics.


Same principles apply to GODS.

#237
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@Fruit_Inspector
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Speculation at best. Worse not even your own speculation. You gave borrowed the speculation of someone whose identity you don't know who lived thousands of years ago who had far less access to scientifically accurate information. 
#238
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@zedvictor4
I don't pretend to know why there is stuff rather than no stuff. I'll leave that to apologists. 
#239
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@secularmerlin
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Speculation at best.
How do you know that what I said is speculation?
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#240
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@Fruit_Inspector
Because you don't offer any proof or compelling evidence outside a storybook from 2000 years ago.