We can never really know anything

Author: TheRealNihilist

Posts

Total: 102
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
At that point we are moving in to "my reality" or "what is real to me" territory.
It's rare I can agree with you!   There is,.indeed, only one reality.

As people do not agree what the word 'god' refers to, I will avoid it by saying that it is my position that reality does not contain a 'Jeremy',which I have defined to be "a cosmic entity that answers prayers, decides of the fate of dead people and gets upset if you kiss some one of the same sex."

My position on the 'existence of god' for any other definition of 'god' depends on how the word 'god' is defined.  I am not totally opposed to the existence of an underlying 'ultimate reality' - i am opposed to equating the 'ultimate reality' with Jeremy - that seems to me to be based on dogmatics, not on logic; it's an article of religious faith rather than a fact.

mustardness
mustardness's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,979
2
2
3
mustardness's avatar
mustardness
2
2
3
-->
@TheRealNihilist
The way you frame is kinda a difficult to read.
Simple is not your forte i.e. your overthinking makes what is simple seem complicated and more complex than it is.

O = quanta that occupys space can be labled in thousands of differrrent ways, bob, sally, boob, Me, You, It, #1, #9 a circle, a spherical etc.

O = quanta of occupied space and ditto my above

So that is two parts of the three I listed and you cannot grasp either of them.  How old are you? Are you on or off your prescription medications?

---- = line of relationship and maybe you dont grasp what the word 'line' or relationship mean. WOW!

So the above line ---- is just a way of showing there is occupied space relationship ---ex a bosonic force--- between the two circles O-----O and you cannot grasp that.  Seriously?  Seriousy lame on you part.

So that line was seemingly straight and only existed between the two circles so I gave you another way to envision a line or even a set of lines-of-relationship that not only exist between the two quanta but also geodesically enclose the two and you could not grasp any geodesic ideas either.  Say WHAT?

(o)(o)  and the point or points of connection between the two quanta occur at the junction between )( the two geodesics and we can think of those two geodesics as gravity.  Have you ever heard of gravity? Have you ever heard of mass-attraction?

Do you have access to a dictionary? 

The "frame" I used consists of three occupied space parts and you cannot grasp even one of them.  Well welcome to the club as apparrently no one else around here can either.   I think were dealing with lame brains whose ego keeps them trapped in ignorance and very narrow band of mental abilities when it comes to simplistic and obvious truths.

So we know ego plays a part and the question becomes  how big of a part does their ego play in playing dumb?

Oh yeah lets not forget the 4th part of the "frame".  Background of macro-infinite non-occupied space. OMG, non-occupied space is so difficult to grasp and to label it as a background is just not done in the social groups you have participate in.  For me to make such statements obviously is a "farm" some people refuse to consider. Why is that?

Is it fear of truth? Why do people fear truth?

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
The word "pray" simply means to ask or make a request. If you are really asking for something, doesn't it show in how you behave? If you are really asking for a job, don't you run around and fill out applications? If you really are asking for the truth, it is going to effect the way you operate. 

So it is no strange thing to say that prayers are answered, because they are. If you are given a gift, and you do not accept it, to whom does the gift belong? You can ask for patience, but if you do not accept that patience, is it really because you weren't given it?

Accepting that you have free will is really a part of accepting your own personal part to play in this whole matter. If you don't accept free will, it really is like passing the accountability. It is also has the illusion of appearing humble(like know nothingism), but is in fact a type of pride that only appears to be humility without discernment.


It is no strange thing to say that the fate of dead people or anything really is decided by reality.

Certain modes of operating lead to certain things happening. Though it is easy to forget this given that we live in a time that invests so much science into working around the problems caused by unethical behavior, it doesn't take much to see that sexual immorality quite naturally leads to all sorts of problems. There may be workarounds for the spread of disease, unwanted pregnancies, and such, but there is still no work around for the polluting effect sexual immorality has on the psychology of a culture. Sexual immorality, homosexual or otherwise is harmful. 

But we Orthodox have been kissing members of the same sex for centuries. No, not in a perverse way, but because this is a cultural way of greeting someone!

That all said we understand that nothing is bad in itself. These behaviors that are bad have roots. We understand things such as sexual immorality to come from idolatry. The way we understand morality is very different than the various theories of western philosphy. As our faith is directed at loving The Truth with our whole being, our morality is about purity of heart.





keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
So it is no strange thing to say that prayers are answered, because they are.
Some prayers are 'answered' - many are not. Also the issue is not whether sometimes something prayed for happens - that willl occur by random chance.   The issue is whether there is a Jeremy that answers payers, which you sidestepped in you post.

It is no strange thing to say that the fate of dead people or anything really is decided by reality.
It is strange to say anything about the fate of dead people when it appears they don't have one.
But we Orthodox have been kissing members of the same sex for centuries. No, not in a perverse way, but because this is a cultural way of greeting someone!
Perhaps Merriem-Webster has an entry for 'euphemism' you can look up!



Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
Some prayers are 'answered' - many are not. Also the issue is not whether sometimes something prayed for happens - that willl occur by random chance.   The issue is whether there is a Jeremy that answers payers, which you sidestepped in you 

I answered your question quite thoroughly, and in such a way as to address your superstition. Now if you are going to cling to your superstition, it will appear you have no answer.

Of course prayers are answered, and it isn't simply chance. Chance does not give someone wisdom. Chance does not hive someone patience. Chance does not give someone a love of the truth. These are things that require cooperation.

If you are going to debate this, my point here being is that you do not understand prayer as we do. 





Perhaps Merriem-Webster has an entry for 'euphemism' you can look up!
Perhaps you can take everything I said instead of snipping only part of what I said in order to make a jab at me.
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
I answered your question quite thoroughly, and in such a way as to address your superstition. Now if you are going to cling to your superstition, it will appear you have no answer.

It's not my superstition, tho, is it?  Just because I know many people think breaking a mirror is bad luck doesn't mean I belive it or that it is 'my superstition'.  I know a lot of people believe 'Jeremy' exists, but I don't.

 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
It is not necessary for you to believe a superstion in order to have a superstitious understanding of something. If atheists were not superstitious concerning God, they would not be atheists.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
Prayer from the heart effects how you interact with the world.


Someone who prays everyday and sincerely for virtue is going to be transformed. 


I find the Jesus prayer very effective when I am struggling against my passions to do the right thing. It helps me when I am dealing with difficult situations in the real world.


"Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."

Of course, to you this is simply a vain repetition, because that is what prayers are when they don't come from the heart. However, to myself and many others, this is a very powerful prayer.


Prayer has its purpose. This is a prayer we say everyday, sometimes many times.


"O Heavenly King, Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere present and fillest all things, the Treasury of good things and Giver of life: Come, and abide in us, and cleanse us from every stain, and save our souls, O Good One."

Do you understand the meaning of the prayer? Well, prayer strengthens and keeps the heart aimed properly. If it served no purpose, we wouldn't have been doing it for thousands of years. It is a very important part of our faith. The point of prayer is not to ask God to give you winning lottery tickets or fancy things. The point of prayer is to align our hearts to righteousness.


keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
I don't doubt that prayer brings peace and solace - the question is whether there is anyone listening.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
As sure as all existent things have their existence in God, you can be sure that even that which is on your heart that is unknown to you is known by God.

Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
We can achieve ulitimate knowledge

13 days later

ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Yes, we know triangles /\ and squares [  ] exist as an occupied space and as metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts. 

This is  a minimal brainer for those who follow rational, logical common sense and seek truth or in denial of  truth.