Islam, " only a tiny minority".

I'm attempting to map common ground.

(IFF) you agree with this (THEN) just say "I agree".

so if it "perfect" it don't need altering or reforming or dragging into the 21st century.  

Nice try, accept for the the silly schoolboy error. 

Nice try, accept for the the silly schoolboy error.

"Except." 

Well I'm pretty sure we know what would happen if we elected Mopac as supreme leader...

Mehmed II introduced the word Politics into Arabic "Siyasah" from a book he published and claimed to be the collection of Politics doctrines of the Byzantine Caesars before him. He gathered Italian artists, humanists and Greek scholars at his court, allowed the Byzantine Church to continue functioning, ordered the patriarch Gennadius to translate Christian doctrine into Turkish

I have no "common ground" with you...

Mehmed II introduced the word Politics into Arabic "Siyasah" from a book he published and claimed to be the collection of Politics doctrines of the Byzantine Caesars before him. He gathered Italian artists, humanists and Greek scholars at his court, allowed the Byzantine Church to continue functioning, ordered the patriarch Gennadius to translate Christian doctrine into Turkish

This seems like a non sequitur to me, so if you would explain what you are trying to say.

No you have gone off the phrase ['moderate'] simply because the evidence that I have shown you indicates if not proves there isn't any such thing as  "moderate Islam" or a "moderate muslim" to my knowledge.

Don't be so arrogant!  It was the Safraz Manzoor radio documentary that made me question the usefulness of the term 

I've gone off it[ the term "moderate muslims" recently because it doesn't have a clear meaning.  

It was the Safraz Manzoor radio documentary

Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.

No, they only meddled in church affairs, kidnapped children, forced them to convert to Islam, made the eunuchs, and had them fight in their armies.

What else? Converted churches to Mosques, prohibited maintenance of churches, made it illegal to proselytize, etc.

Actually, the Turks were probably the worst out of all the Muslim conquerors. 

Islam butchered its way far west into Europe up into France and Spain. North west to the Caucuses. As far east a China and down into the Indian subcontinent raping robbing maiming and murdering and converting by the sword as it went. It appears this  fool likes to believe  that the indigenous peoples of the "conquered lands" simply welcomed them in and willingly converted to Islam Without so much as a by your leave' and that it had absolutely nothing to do with a fkn sword and the threat of death.

Christians massacred pagans indiscriminately as well.

I really think you should listen to that radio program.

You probably think its a 'lefty-libtard' puff piece about how the 'Muslims are nice, really' but it isn't like that at all.  It presents a pretty depressing picture of how the Muslim community in Britain is moving away rather than towards liberal and progressive attitudes.

What i mean is that Muslims are going to form a signficant (and growing) fraction of the British population or a long time to come. 

 I think it is not realistic to expect them to abandon Islam completely -

I think we do have to look very hard at what Muslims - especially young Muslims - are being taught at their mosques and at Islamic schools

being taught

I think it is crucial that tolerance doesn't become appeasement.

But this is Britain, not a police state 

Or we could do nothing and hope for the best....

but that isn't working.

The [Muslim] men and women I met told me they found it infuriating that they could be devout in their practice of their religion but they would only be considered “moderate” Muslims – since moderate was often taken to mean not hugely observant. Meanwhile those who had committed appalling acts of terror – and who were often far from religious in their earlier lives – would immediately be considered “real” or “full” Muslims. It was surprising to find a term that I had always assumed was favourable and benign being so roundly condemned. It may once have been useful but the phrase is no longer fit for purpose.

So 'Moderate' is taken to mean 'not hugely observant" - I think that's the same as 'half-hearted'.  I believe my post is a sober exposition of the issue around the word 'moderate' and is neither pro- or anti- anything; I just presented some background.

I've  @'ed yassine in the hope of getting his perspective.

Repeatedly quoted and requoted, the phrase is often used by apologists when radical Islam bubbles to the surface.

In this 6 minute video that myth is finally put to rest. Interesting is the fact that this person quotes the well respected Pew Research Centre as his source. 

  

The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&t=114s

But the Islamic system is theocratic which means law must conform to and never contradict scripture.

note I say 'law' not belief.  What is in the quran does not only affect how an inividual Muslim feels about eating shellfish.  In a theocratic system scripture dictates social policy, education policy, health policy, gender policy etc.  In the west we can debate, for example, the death penalty.  In a theocracy there is no debate - there are just religious scholars poring over ancient tomes imposing their learned opinions. 

In the west we are so used to democracy and secularism its hard to imagine theocracy.  The real contrast is not between Christianity and Islam but between secularism and theocracy.   There are theocratically-minded Christians in the west, and they have a small political effect.   But if you imagine a US ruled by fundamentalist evangelicals with no oppostion you get some idea of theocracy.

Europe cast off the shackes of theocracy centuies ago. i believe the Islamic world can reform too, but I think Wahaabists and like-minded Muslim theocrats are a real threat who are rolling back the work of modernising Muslims such as Attaurk in Turkey.

LOL! Radical Muslim = wanting Sharia as their law in their own country?? LMAO.

The church has never indiscriminately massacred pagans nor can the church condone this as it is against our ways. 

This makes the overwhelming majority of Christians radical, most Christians want the Bible as their law, especially in South America & Africa. Even in the US, 57% of republicans want to abolish the constitution & make the Bible national religion

LOL! Radical Muslim = wanting Sharia as their law in their own country?? LMAO.

And mine.

The church has never indiscriminately massacred pagans nor can the church condone this as it is against our ways. 

The church has never indiscriminately massacred pagans nor can the church condone this as it is against our ways. 

- Historical fantasy.