Islam, " only a tiny minority".

Author: Stephen

Posts

Total: 259
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Stephen

If so, my answer would be  it may have something to do with teachings in the quran. Barring the "tiny minority". What do you think?
Yeah I meant the other question. If it was just the teachings why a worse book called the Old Testament was able to reach an enlightenment stage to be changed to the New Testament?

I have already stated why I think it is the case. 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@keithprosser
The present situation shows that xenophobia can exist in other forms.   It should have been realised long ago - we had plenty of examples of xenophobia that were not racial - ant-semitism, sectarian violence between RCs an protestants, Shia v Sunni, Tutsis anf Hutus, Serbs and Croats...


"ant-semitism", <<<<< RELIGION

"sectarian violence between RCs an protestants," <<<<< RELIGION

"Shia v Sunni", <<<<< RELIGION

"Tutsis anf Hutus", <<<<< RELIGION

Serbs and Croats...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< RACE

Now it has been broken down can anyone see what this sly and deceitful apologist prosser has attempted to do once more.  This is a attempt by a left wing liberal apologist for ISLAM to redefine a word. let's look at the meaning of "Xenophobia"

xenophobia

  1. dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.
My parents were from other countries. My mother was Italian and my father Welsh. I love peoples from both these countries and many others countries. I have relations in the Yemen (Aden. my sister married an Arab), as well as Italy (Naples)  and Wales (Prestatyn).

keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
"Calling me racist is not going to cure the problem of there being more radicals than the "tiny few" apologist like you want to admit. There are millions of muslim radicals that support the muslim extreme terrorist."
Can we have some definiteness and precision about 'millions' and 'support'?   How many Muslims support the Sri Lanka attacks, for example and i what way do they support it?

I think the answer is 'disturbingly many'.   The interesting question is why there is support for Islamic terror.   AFAICT your theory is that Muslims are members of a vast consiracy to take over the world (starting with Savile Town and Bradford).   I don't go for that...
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2



@>>>>disgusted You don't attack Islam you attack Muslims and then you lie about it.


Nope and you cannot show me or anyone where I have "attacked muslims". Unlike yourself who states often that;

" MUSLIMS have serious mental health issues and , are in urgent need of psychiatric treatment" and  Muhammad the prophet and Allah the god of islam all have " mental health issues" 


And I repeat that - according to a tenet of  Islam  - babies born of muslim parents are born MUSLIM. 


"The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra - as a Muslim -. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)


So take that up with a 'real' muslim before you start calling them "Insane, stupid , have serious mental issues, and in need of urgent psychiatric attention", I am sure they will explain this muslim birth phenomenon much better that I.



3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
You would also be hard pushed to find anything from me that could be called " anti-muslim"". 
I'm perfectly willing to accept this might be the case, but you'll have to clarify your position.

As it stands, you definitely sound like you're standing in the middle of the street screeching "anti-muslim" over and over again.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@keithprosser
AFAICT your theory is that Muslims are members of a vast consiracy to take over the world (starting with Savile Town and Bradford).   I don't go for that...
Isn't the implicit goal of EVERY RELIGION to "take over the world"?
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
If there's a religion whose tenets include "and when thou reachest the water / mountain / desert, thou shalt knoweth thatour faith is indeed fully spread and should go no farther, let others believe as they willst," I'd like to see it!

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ludofl3x
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [LINK]
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@3RU7AL
Christians don't believe in it though, Jesus disobeyed them
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
You would also be hard pushed to find anything from me that could be called " anti-muslim"". 
I'm perfectly willing to accept this might be the case, but you'll have to clarify your position.

I don't care what you will or will not accept. I have made my position clear on many occasions. It is the likes of you and prosser and the sea sponge - now banned- simply WISHING me to be racist and WISHING me to be bigoted, because then you just may have an argument. It didn't take prosser too long to imply I was racist. His very first post on this thread to be precise when he made this disgusting bigoted statement :

--> @keithprosser I think he [Stephen] sees this as an opprtunity to get rid of brown people! 

But because you cannot wish either into existence, apologist like prosser attempt all kinds of ways to alter the playing field, move the goal posts and simply attempt to re define the fkn english language and invent new words in the hope that it will force people like me to be silent and make me look bad.  This is why that out of sheer desperation to justify Islam and apologise for it people such as prosser desperately attempts to define islam/  muslims as a race. It is ISLAM I have a problem with.


As it stands, you definitely sound like you're standing in the middle of the street screeching "anti-muslim" over and over again.

Then you are either purposefully ignoring what I say, or don't understand what I have said or wrote. Give me an example of me "screeching "anti-muslim" over and over again.".

now IF you had said:

' As it stands, you definitely sound like you're standing in the middle of the street screeching "anti- ISLAM" over and over again' ,

you would be correct.


I perfectly understand that the biggest sufferers of this barbaric ideology ISLAM are muslims themselves. It is ISLAM that I have a problem with.

No w, you won't forget to give me an example of me screeching something "anti-muslim" over and over again, will you.
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
Whether you are a racist and whether I am a 'libtard' is neither here nor there.

Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.

I think the content and tone of your posts exaggerates, exacerbates and misreprents the issues.   I'm sure even you would not claim that you strive for balance in you posts on Islam!  

I deny that I post apologies for Islam.   I think that 'Islam' does present a challege to 'British values' (scare quotes because they are short terms for complicated concepts and I want to move on!).   But I think that to solve a problem you have to de-policitise it and be as objective as possible.

Because in my opinion you post one-sided polemics I have to criticise what you say because your stuff is not de-politicised and objective.   I think you are - by intention or inadvetently only you know - fanning the flames, so I try to put some sand on top!   That's not because I love Islam or don't see the problem it's because I think you are -in a very small way because your audience here is tiny and not very receptive - making things worse using a 'tabloid' approach to a 'broadsheet' problem!









TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@keithprosser
Using fear to drive people to do irrational things where we need a more rational response to problems. 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
Whether you are a racist and whether I am a 'libtard' is neither here nor there.

Oh please. You would love nothing than me being a PROVEN racist "islamophobe". It would make your life so much easier not to mention your argument where you could put everything I say down to _  ' my racist islamophobic opinion '. without you having to debunk and dispel anything I have to say on the problem of islam. And the reason for this is that you simply have no argument and no answers. Is all you have unsupported opinions and you fail any challenges to those too when asked to. 



Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.


I agree, so let's hear it. I have given my opinion on that score many times to you and you simply ignored it. So go ahead . Your turn.I have asked you this many times now but you have failed to respond. The issue is Islam and "what to do about it", So lets hear it.



I think the content and tone of your posts exaggerates, exacerbates and misreprents the issues.  

As a rule I only post in support of my claims which are usually from Islamic sources including the quran. I spend most of my time here debunking your fkn claims again WITH ISLAMIC SOURCES!!!!!.  You don't like this and I can't help that you don't like it. Tell me, when someone -YOU - tells me that there are "kinds" "forms" and types of islam" and MUSLIM, am I simply to take YOUR fkn word for it? 



I'm sure even you would not claim that you strive for balance in you posts on Islam! 


Listen, When you make a claim about Islam  and don't agree with it or YOU, then the idea is for me to debunk it, no accept it and go away. Debunking your claim is all about one side OUTWEIGHING the other side, i.e to tip the BALANCE in favour of MY argument, not YOURS!!!!, didn't you know that?


so I try to put some sand on top!  

Sounds a lot like shut me up or cover something up you don't want exposed. 

That's not because I love Islam or don't see the problem it's because I think you are -in a very small way because your audience here is tiny and not very receptive - making things worse using a 'tabloid' approach to a 'broadsheet' problem!

Like I have said many times. If you make a claim that I do not agree with, then  I will set out to debunk that claim. 

Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NO


Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Using fear to drive people to do irrational things where we need a more rational response to problems. 

 What about the promise of paradise and seventy virgins and wine that doesn't get you drunk? Does that drive people to do "irrational things".
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
...muslims as a race. It is ISLAM I have a problem with.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

So you're not TECHNICALLY RACIST.

You're merely DE FACTO RACIST.

Tell me, master hair-splitter, the difference between being "anti-muslim" and "anti-islam"?
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Stephen
What about the promise of paradise and seventy virgins and wine that doesn't get you drunk? Does that drive people to do "irrational things".
What about you are going to hell because you are not a Christian for eternity?

Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
What about you are going to hell because you are not a Christian for eternity?

I hope so. I believe that there would be a better class of people in hell, should hell actually exist.

TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Stephen
I hope so. I believe that there would be a better class of people in hell, should hell actually exist.
So what is the difference between Islam and Christianity again?


3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NO
In Leviticus 20:13 "The Bible" says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”

Are you suggesting that Judaism/Christianity is "incompatible with the west"?
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NO
In Leviticus 20:13 "The Bible" says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”

Are you suggesting that Judaism/Christianity is "incompatible with the west"?

  

You can keep banging your head against a lightbulb. It has no relevance at all what the ancient biblical texts have to say . Go back to post 43 and read what I responded to there:

Stephen wrote>>>  ;  Christianity has reformed we are now in the 21st century islam unfortunately  is still stuck in the 7th century. The west has taken power away from the priests - for good or ill, depending on one's belief;  but it seems to be running along quite nicely without the interference and influence they and the church once had.

And to borrow a quote from the pompous prosser himself who had this to say on this particular matter;

-> @keithprosser post 41"The difference is that in Christian societies is that the bible is not the ultimate authority.   That is to say laws don't have to be justified by reference to scripture, and laws can (and do) contradict scripture.  But the Islamic system is theocratic which means law must conform to and never contradict scripture.
note I say 'law' not belief.  What is in the quran does not only affect how an inividual Muslim feels about eating shellfish.  In a theocratic system scripture dictates social policy, education policy, health policy, gender policy etc.  In the west we can debate, for example, the death penalty.  In a theocracy there is no debate - there are just religious scholars poring over ancient tomes imposing their learned opinions. 

In the west we are so used to democracy and secularism its hard to imagine theocracy.  The real contrast is not between Christianity and Islam but between secularism and theocracy.   There are theocratically-minded Christians in the west, and they have a small political effect.   But if you imagine a US ruled by fundamentalist evangelicals with no oppostion you get some idea of theocracy.
 
It is of no consequence at all that you repeatedly refer to the Old Testament as if it has relevance to Christianity today in the 21st century, IT DOESN'T!!! And it doesn't offer balance of who was is the baddest or the worst. Islam is STILL Islam, unchanged, unaltered  and still adhered to by millions of muslims to the letter.

Your attempts to contextualise Christianity and Judaism of the 21st century with what is still 7th century islam in the 21st century is pointless if not laughable. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK!!

Prosser, and now you, have not answered the question:

Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? YES or NO?
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
In Leviticus 20:13 "The Bible" says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
I can't really say the significance this holds in whatever school of Islam but I have read that the Shiite still don't eat shellfish.  Others just won't eat pork.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
So what is the difference between Islam and Christianity again?

here is a clue;

ISLAM - Quran 51 -    " You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And                                              whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people". 

ISLAM - Quran 8:39     "And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah......"

Christianity -  Matthew 22:39            "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".
                         
Christianity -  Matthew 5:38-40       “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

I will add:


Christians do not stone homosexuals to death, they do not stone adulterers to death and they do not stone victims or rape to death either. islam does all three.
 THAT IS THE FKN DIFFERENCE!!!!!!
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
Islam is STILL Islam, unchanged, unaltered  and still adhered to by millions of muslims to the letter.
This article summarizes the different branches and schools in Islam. The best known split, into Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, and Kharijites, was mainly political at first but eventually acquired theological and jurisprudential dimensions. There are three traditional types of schools in Islam: schools of jurisprudence, Sufi orders and schools of theology. The article also summarizes major denominations and movements that have arisen in the modern era. [LINK]

I believe you are conflating "islam" with "whahhabi".

The Wahhabi movement was created by Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab in the Arabian peninsula, and was instrumental in the rise of the House of Saud to power. It is a strict orthodox form and a branch of sunni Islam, with fundamentalist views, believing in a strict literal interpretation of the Quran. The terms Wahhabism and Salafism are often used interchangeably, although the word Wahhabi is specific for followers of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab. Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism"[105][106] and causing disunity in Muslim communities, and criticized for its followers' destruction of historic sites. [LINK]

It may be time to hang up your BROAAD BRUUSH.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
It may be time to hang up your BROAAD BRUUSH.

Nope. It is all Islam. It is still 7th century Islam. NOTE from your link; believing in a strict literal interpretation of the Quran". The Quran; this would be the same book all those other "islams" go by wouldn't it? 

Listen to this lady. I think she sums it all up pretty well, including " wahhabism". 

Islam Explained In Under 5 Minutes

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi) [LINK]
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Stephen
here is a clue;

ISLAM - Quran 51 -    " You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And                                              whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people". 

ISLAM - Quran 8:39     "And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah......"

Christianity -  Matthew 22:39            "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".
                          
Christianity -  Matthew 5:38-40       “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat 

Cherry picking to suit your narrative. Lets first speak about the foundation of both Religions. Both claim they are true and both don't allow others to be apart of another Religion. All you have a problem with is the framing of what they have said. Since the New Testament came around you have an easy cop out to look this is not as bad as that but the Old Testament is worse than the Qur'an. 
Christians do not stone homosexuals to death, they do not stone adulterers to death and they do not stone victims or rape to death either. islam does all three.
 THAT IS THE FKN DIFFERENCE!!!!!!
No but if we asked them what happens to people who sin? Well they are going to being in hell for eternity if they do not repent. Same goes for Islam. Your problem is with the severity. Okay then since you like conflating bad practices with people with the Qur'an. I am going to challenge you on them.

Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone homosexuals.
Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone adulterers.

I don't know why you have a hate boner for Islam but you really need to jerk it off before you make statements that of course are missing key information. Like the Old Testament, the enlightenment period, what are the fundamentals, what your problem actually is, not trying to conflate bad practices with the Qur'an. 

You say you don't have a problem with Muslims but then the last thing I quoted was the very problem you had with Muslims not Islam. You had a problem with Muslims stoning homosexuals and adulterers not the Qur'an stating it to be so. What did you say you had a problem with again?

Masturbate please. It relieves stress and your use of capital letters and exclamation marks makes me think you really need it. 

Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
Cherry picking to suit your narrative. 
You asked for the difference. I showed you the difference, How would you expect me to show you the difference you buffoon.

Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone homosexuals.
Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone adulterers.

Go away you clown. Islam is very clear  that the penalties for both Homosexuality and adultery is death. Are you denying this fact?
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
Listen to this lady. I think she sums it all up pretty well, including " wahhabism". 

Islam Explained In Under 5 Minutes


TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
You asked for the difference. I showed you the difference, How would you expect me to show you the difference you buffoon.
I call this a distinction without a difference. Both hold the same fundamentals but reach that goal in different ways.
Go away you clown. Islam is very clear  that the penalties for both Homosexuality and adultery is death. Are you denying this fact?
Why are you changing what you said earlier? You had a problem with Muslims stoning adulterers and homosexuals. You sure you can register in your thick skull that you can be wrong? 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
I call this a distinction without a difference. Both hold the same fundamentals but reach that goal in different ways.

You can call it what the hell you like. Christianity like judaism has dragged itself into the 21st century ISLAM has not and cannot. You attempting to contextualise Christianity of the 21st century with 7th century.ISLAM is a poor attempt  at justifying  a barbaric death cult not to mention laughable and pointless. But you knock yourself out, my response won't change no matter how many times you try this bullshiite.


Go away you clown. Islam is very clear  that the penalties for both Homosexuality and adultery is death. Are you denying this fact?
Why are you changing what you said earlier? You had a problem with Muslims stoning adulterers and homosexuals.

Are you telling me that the sentence for homosexuality and adultery in ISLAM is NOT death? 

 Here you go, mind how you choke>>.

Rajm is an Arabic word that means "stoning".[2][3] It is commonly used to refer to the Hudud punishment wherein an organized group throws stones at a convicted individual until that person dies. Under some versions of Islamic law (Sharia), it is the prescribed punishment in cases of adultery committed by a married man or married woman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajm.

 Afghanistan. The Afghanistan Penal Code does not refer to homosexuality explicitly, but provides for prosecuting it under the sharia [islamic law] category of zina (illicit sexual intercourse), which according to some traditional Islamic legal schools may entail the hadd (sharia-prescribed) punishment of stoning.

 Saudi Arabia, which does not have codified criminal laws.[4] According to the country's interpretation of sharia, a married man who commits sodomy, or a non-Muslim who engages in sodomy with a Muslim, can be stoned to death.[7] 

In other islamic countries it could be hanging ----- from a crane. Others it can be thrown from a very tall building.. But you can deny this if you like. it matters not the method, because the result is exactly the same : DEATH!!!!


You sure you can register in your thick skull that you can be wrong? 

No, I am not wrong and  I can register that. I ask you again. are you trying to tell me that the penalty for Homosexuality and Adultery IN ISLAM is not death?



Brunei implements stoning to death under anti-LGBT laws



 I believe the Sultan may have backpedaled on this decision though. After a civilised Queen from the West had a word with him.