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@TheRealNihilist
Objective just means that it’s not based on feelings; so something can be specific to humans and not universal, but not based on feelings.
The most important thing I know?
C++
It is time: Ramshutu AMA
Posts
Total:
219
Interesting answer.
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@Ramshutu
How can something not be based on feelings?
So computer logic is the most important thing to you?
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@Ramshutu
The most important thing I know?C++
I think there are other things that are life-threatening to forget - such as how to breathe and the wife's birthday, not necessarily in that order.
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@Ramshutu
If someone says 'I'm a solipsist'. who are they talking to?
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@keithprosser
If someone says 'I'm a solipsist'. who are they talking to?
The bigger question is who is if solipsist nails someone - are they playing with themselves.
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@keithprosser
think there are other things that are life-threatening to forget - such as how to breathe and the wife's birthday, not necessarily in that order.
There enough dump people in the world that don’t forget to breath that tells me it’s not a learned function.
The ability to set a reminder on google calendars is more important than remembering a birthday?
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@Ramshutu
I'll repost this. Don't know if you missed it or not.
How can something not be based on feelings?
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@TheRealNihilist
Maths isn’t based on feelings...
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@Ramshutu
Mathematics is an abstract concept. Gained through subjective place of the mind.
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@TheRealNihilist
Mathematics is an abstract concept.
but no matter how you feel about it, or how you feel at a time, you can’t make 1+1=2 just because you feel like it.
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@Ramshutu
I could meditate on that for hours, Sensei.you can’t make 1+1=2 just because you feel like it.
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@Ramshutu
1+1=1 and 1+0=0 in most cases within quantum physics but without physicality, what you're saying is true.
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@Ramshutu
you can’t make 1+1=2 just because you feel like it.I could meditate on that for hours, Sensei.
I have mediatated long and hard to plumb the depths of the message revealed by Sensei Ramshutu. Hard was the journey, for the untutored mind of a sparrow does not rise to the Eagle realm with ease. Sensei's lofty meaning was long hidden from my humble sight but, as a worm can dream of kingship and a spider can gain the forgiveness of the grass seed I, too, gained enlightenment.
It's a typo, right?
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@keithprosser
possibly, possibly not!
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@Ramshutu
I'll get me coat.
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@Ramshutu
Mathematics is an abstract concept.but no matter how you feel about it, or how you feel at a time, you can’t make 1+1=2 just because you feel like it.
1+1=2 equals is true based on assumptions. We are rational thinking agents being one of them. Do you disagree?
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@TheRealNihilist
That’s not an assumption that doesn’t do it justice - that’s more of an inherent axiom of almost everything. Because we need to sssume we are generally rational beings and this isn’t all a hallucination, doesn’t mean that objective quantities such as Pi, or numbers are subjective; the assumption is inherently baked into the notion of objectiveity itself.
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@Ramshutu
That’s not an assumption that doesn’t do it justice
I am not here for justice. Just stating what is. An axiom is an unjustified presupposition also known as an assumption.
Because we need to sssume we are generally rational beings and this isn’t all a hallucination
Need to doesn't make my observation wrong.
doesn’t mean that objective quantities such as Pi, or numbers are subjective; the assumption is inherently baked into the notion of objectiveity itself.
What is the notion of objectivity?
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@TheRealNihilist
Russell and Whitehead proved it in Principia Marhematica.1+1=2 equals is true based on assumptions.
also
My proof is shorter: "s'obvious, innit";
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@keithprosser
So I am right?Russell and Whitehead proved it in Principia Marhematica.
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@TheRealNihilist
I haven't the faintest idea!
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@keithprosser
What the hell. I thought you were going to confirm my biases. Oh well.
I still think Maths like with other things have feelings involved but we try our best to not have feelings involved. If we didn't have feelings we would have advances at a much faster rate like robots but we feel. That feeling comes into the way of lets say objectivity like maths. I don't think we can ever remove ourselves from our feelings but maths has been helpful just not objective. My take on it at least.
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@TheRealNihilist
Theres a little confusion.
The difference between subjective and objective is the difference between who is the best rock band, and what is 73 x 11.
Subjective things are based on personal opinions and feelings and may very well differ from person to person. Objective things are based on exteternal facts and evidence, and generally don’t very much need opinion to be given.
If Something is based on facts, those facts are broadly agreed, and the logic is determined to be valid: then its objective.
Those facts could end up being disproven, or the logic turn out to flawed in some way: but until that is determined - the principle is still objectivez
In the same way, 1+1 = 2 is objectively true, and not based on feelings.
While it’s possible that we’re all mad, or that you’re the only brain in the universe and maths is all wrong: it’s also possible - and likely more probable that it isn’t. Until you show that all the facts and logic of maths are actually based on feelings or some weird collective delusion: it remains therefore objective.
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@Ramshutu
How can we know external facts?Objective things are based on exteternal facts and evidence, and generally don’t very much need opinion to be given.
I had a contention with that. I did read everything else but for me to talk about things other than your foundation would not be worth exploring until we cover this.
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@TheRealNihilist
You observe them; that’s how you know.
We all observe that the sky is blue. Thus, it’s a fact that is external to our own opinion.
The beauty of it is that even if we were all mad brains in vats, in a simulation, and there was no sky at all... we still all observe that the sky Is blue.
In this respect - that’s what makes the fact objective. They would still be objective even if the world didn’t really exist.
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@Ramshutu
Color blind people wouldn't see.We all observe that the sky is blue.
Blind people wouldn't see.
we still all observe that the sky Is blue.
Want to change that statement?
They would still be objective even if the world didn’t really exist.
You are assuming this. You have no way to prove this.
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@TheRealNihilist
Blue is what we call electromagnetic radiation at a particular frequency. Both the color blind and the blind have the ability to determine electromagnetic radiation from the sky is at the frequency even if they can’t observe it directly with their eyes.
This is what is observed.
If the world didn’t really exist, and we’re all brains in jars; it’s still what everyone observes - so it’s still a fact that the sky is blue whether what we see is real or not. We all observe the sky is blue independent of what the truth of reality is, or whether we’re all mad.
I think you’re mistaking what is ultimately true or not with what is objective. You’re really unnecessarily over complicating what is actually a pretty simple concept.
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@Ramshutu
How can they observe it then if not with their eyes?Blue is what we call electromagnetic radiation at a particular frequency. Both the color blind and the blind have the ability to determine electromagnetic radiation from the sky is at the frequency even if they can’t observe it directly with their eyes.
If the world didn’t really exist, and we’re all brains in jars; it’s still what everyone observes
Observing something doesn't equal it to be objective.
I think you’re mistaking what is ultimately true or not with what is objective.
What is the difference between ultimately true and objective?
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@TheRealNihilist
Last time I checked, blind people had other senses, and are capable of using equipment such as spectrographs, etc: but even then - your example
was mostly a bit of a straw man, because it’s not like they see blue as green, and can’t agree on the color, they just can’t make the observation.
Observing something external, having multiple other people observe that something, and all agree both on what they are seeing, and it’s inherent nature does very much make it an objective observation.
Truth is what is congruent with reality; for probably the third time, objective means not based on feelings.
Like I said, your making this way too complex as I think you’re not using an appropriate definition for what objective means.
Objective and subjective is the difference between “this weighs 8 tons” and “nickelback are a great band”