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@Ramshutu
You know as well as I do that reality as it truly is cannot be a conception.
Ramshutu’s Razor
Posts
Total:
315
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@Mopac
Reality isn’t a conception.
You saying Reality is God is a conception.
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@Ramshutu
Don't get confused because we use conceptions to communicate.
The spirit of what I am saying must incarnate into the flesh of a concept for us to communicate.
The Ultimate Reality. What that truly means. What that truly means is certainly not a concept, and you agree.
This is what we recognize as God. The Absolute Truth. Supreme Being.
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@Mopac
You can say it a billion times and it won’t be any more true.
Just because you claim God is reality doesn’t make it true. This is your own fallible (and
illogical) conception.
I know reality exists. I don’t know reality has a mind and super powers. Until you can show reality has a mind and super powers, you can’t show reality is God.
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@Ramshutu
In other words, until what I say conforms to your own conception and superstitions, you will simply make pretense that you are talking about my God.
You can imagine I'm sure what that looks like to me. That is, after all what this topic is about. Your vain imagings.
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@Mopac
Nah, you’re just making a bunch of stuff up then claiming you’re correct without any logic or argument.
We know Reality exists.
We don’t know reality has a mind or super powers.
Your God has a mind and super powers.
Therefore we can’t tell that reality is the same thing as your God.
By all means, show me how you can tell Reality has a mind and super powers...
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@Ramshutu
I don't need a logic or argument, when we say God we are speaking of The Ultimate Reality.
I don't need an argument to back this.
You really don't umderstand my faith or my God. You are talking nonsense. Maybe you should stop thinking you know anything. Stop wasting your time debating heterodox jobbers, they don't understand their God.
You are superstitious.
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@Mopac
But you’re not talking about the ultimate Reality, you’re talking about god
God has a mind.
We have no reason to believe the ultimate reality has a mind. So you telling us they’re the same is just making things up.
But good going telling us you don’t need logic nd reason. It shows us all which boat you’re sailing on.
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@Ramshutu
"Show me that God has a mind or superpowers or The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist!"
You are asking a ridicilous thing, though you don't know.
A conception of God =/= God
A conception of The Ultimate Reality =/= The Ultimate Reality
You are still trying to fit God into your box, because you think you know what you don't
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@PGA2.0
YES!
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@Mopac
A conception of God =/= GodA conception of The Ultimate Reality =/= The Ultimate RealityYou are still trying to fit God into your box, because you think you know what you don't
This must be projection.
What you’re doing is making a conception of God as the ultimate reality. This is not god - you said so yourself
Youre inventing a conception of the ultimate reality and pretending it is the ultimate reality. This is not reality either
The main thing though, is the flawed and ridiculous logic you’re using is backwards. God has a mind, and is reality. reality exists but unless you can show it has a mind, you can’t show that it’s God. So in that respect, given you’re convinced of this faulty argument, you think you know what you don’t.
So you’re literally projecting all the errors you are making onto me.
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@Ramshutu
There is a certain level of absurdity that is unavoidable when you are using the medium of creation to communicate what is fundamentally uncreated. That is all we have to work with.
And this is a great mystery of the two natures of Christ, fully man and fully divine. The Word is God. This is The Word before words, before all creation. It is the true essence of what The Ultimate Reality is. The Word becoming flesh is the word that is used to convey this. The word you are reading. That is, God taking the form of creation, becoming incarnate.
And the light shines in the darkness, but the darkness comprehends it not.
The letter kills, but the spirit gives life!
Believe that He is who He says He is.
The Ultimate Reality comes as a person, in the form of The Word of God. The Son of God, to the glory of The Father, enlivened by The Holy Spirit of Truth.
Jesus Christ, Son of The Living God speaks, "I Am That I Am, The Eternally Existing One"
You have to believe that God is what God is.
For
"He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
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@Mopac
That’s just your conception of God.
Your conception of God != God.
Your conception of Reality != Reality.
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@Ramshutu
No, Ramshutu. I am using a conception to point to you what is beyond conception. You are staring at my finger.
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@Mopac
Yes, that’s what I said.
You're using your conception of God to show what is beyond conception.
Your conception of God != God.
You said so yourself.
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@Ramshutu
The conception is the spoken or written word itself, not The Word that is before words, The Word that these spoken or written words represent in creation.
The Ultimate Reality
Or shortened...
God.
The word is as the flesh to the spirit. The flesh is creation. The spirit is The Uncreated. The Spirit takes the form of flesh, the flesh did not create the spirit. The spirit of God is Truth, The Ultimate Reality, the essence of what TRULY IS. So when I say God, I am not talking about a conception of God. I am pointing to The Ultimate Reality.
And it should be apparent that God necessarily exists.
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@Mopac
Like I said, with all the nonsense and gibberish - you basically are trying to convince me that your fallible, human conception of God is true and valid.
You said so yourself:
Your conception of God != God. Your conception of Reality != Reality
You can’t even follow your own rules.
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@Ramshutu
No Ramshutu.
As I said before there is a certain level of absurdity involved in expressing The Uncreated through the medium of creation. That which is not conception through words.
It has to be this way, there is no other way.
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@Mopac
Yes: again.
Just because you are admitting you are forced to use a conception of God and a conception of Reality does not mean you’re not falling foul of your own rules.
Your using fallible conceptions, that can have errors and can be wrong: and for which you have claimed are illogical and irrational to rely upon when I make similar conceptions.
Why are you allowed to rely on your fallible conceptions of Reality and God - but no one else is?
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@Ramshutu
The Ultimate Reality is not a concept, nor is it fallible.
You refuse to acknowledge The Father through The Son, so The Holy Spirit is not in you. You are denying Jesus Christ in The Flesh, which means that the truth is not in you, and you are speaking from an anti-Christ spirit.
To those with wisdom, understand!
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@Ramshutu
Why are you allowed to rely on your fallible conceptions of Reality and God - but no one else is?
I am actually speaking to you Orthodox theology in a very plain way. Maybe if you are not perceptive or willing enough to understand, someone else will.
If not, I am a fool for Christ's sake.
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@Mopac
I am not denying God. I am not denying Reality.
I am denying YOUR CONCEPTION of reality and YOUR CONCEPTION of God.
I do not acknowledge your conceptions as valid as they are illogical.
Youve agreed that these are conceptions, you’ve stated yourself that conceptions of Reality != Reality. So why on earth you claim your position is valid whilst it self evidently fails based on your own rules.
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@Ramshutu
A word is a concept.
You are needlessly arguing. This had nothing to do with mine or anybodys conception.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
You know The Ultimate Reality exists.
God exists.
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@Mopac
No.
Your conception of God is that it is the ultimate reality - that is your conception. You yourself repeatedly stated that conception of God != God.
Now - reality exists.
Is reality God?
Only according to you conception of Reality - and tie conception of reality != Reality. You yourself said this repeatedly.
Your conception is poor and illogical because your falling afoul of a rudimentary logical error:
God has a mind, and God has super powers.
We know reality exists, but we don’t know it has a mind and super powers.
Knowing reality exists - is not proof that it has a mind; and is thus not proof of your conception of God.
Your own irrational rejections posted earlier refute your own argument here.
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@Ramshutu
Orthodox theology is apodictic, that is, self evident truth. You do not understand our theology, so it looks like nonsense to you. That is my point.
And it is done this way for a reason. It is the same reason Jesus taught in parables.
The idea is, God gives grace to the humble but resists the proud. If you approach the faith as if you know better, you will blaspheme things not knowing that you are in fact making yourself into a fool.
For example, if you were to say "God doesn't exist", you would in fact be saying that there is no truth or that nothing is real.
I don't expect you to understand our ways based on conversation you have over the internet. If you really were interested I would recommend you to an Orthodox Church. I do however think that if you get anything at all, it is that there is a lot more to our faith than you understand.
Also, maybe the only form of Christianity that you have been exposed to is technically heretical.
But hey.
Since you are confused by religion, lets make it simple.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
The Ultimate Reality exists.
This is not philosophical conclusion. This is not a conclusion that was arrived at through logic. This is not even up for debate. It is apodictic truth.
And if you disagree, I challenge you to think of anything greater than The Ultimate Reality. You can't. Without it, nothing would exist.
And that is what God intended for the universe. For it to exist.
The One True God breaks your razor.
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@Ramshutu
The Word has to take flesh, Ramshutu, otherwise God is not with us. Then we can't even talk about God.
But we can talk about God, and God is present through His Word and Spirit.
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@Mopac
[My conception of] The Word has to take flesh, Ramshutu, otherwise [My conception of] God is not with us. Then we can't even talk about [My conception of] God.But we can talk about [My conception of] God, and [My conception of] God is present through [My conception of] His Word and Spirit.
I fixed you last post. You forgot to mention which parts are simply down to your opinion of the conception. As this is the majority of our argument, it is fallible and subject to your own internal bias and faulty logic. You keep telling everyone else this, you should apply it to yourself: otherwise this is just intellectual dishonesty.
Reality exists - but I can’t tell whether reality has a mind: as such we can’t tell that Reality his God.
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@Ramshutu
You are in error when you turn my God into a conception. The Ultimate Reality is not a conception. I am not talking about a conception.
Reality having a mind is not relevent.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
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@Mopac
Im not turning your God into a conception.
I’m pointing out that all you have is a conception of God - which you are then pretending is the real thing.