Have You Counted Out God??

Author: EtrnlVw

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#31
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@disgusted
All gods are the creation of man. Name one god who is not claimed by man to exist.

Geezus, broken friggin record. Is there any knowledge or claims that are not from man? please elaborate on that because that is how we receive knowledge. Science is also mans effort and examinations/claims, is it too worthless? 
It's irrelevant what man claims as far as what exists, but man is the only one who can acknowledge that dum dum. 
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#32
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@Outplayz
You know me... i've counted out many gods but also believe they all exist lol, but i have not counted out all of this being a manifestation of some kind of infinite consciousness type platform. I think that is what you're calling god...

Yes, because the nature of God cannot be confused to be anything else, that's precisely what "God" is, an eternal consciousness. Not using God to support religious dogma but as a means to communicate what the origins of our universe and existence are. 

Got into Muay Thai training again so i'm always spent by the time i'm home.

Sweet, that sounds like my type of activities lol. I've always loved combat sports. 

I personally like how it fixes the infinite regress paradox...

It will always satisfy any paradoxes because it is what we all come out of, there is nothing else. Nothing else will ever fully answer and satisfy the intellectual nature of ourselves and our curiosity, not because we are curious but because consciousness will always strive to be free and understand it's true source because of what it is. At some point for every soul, it must know and accept the true nature of itself. 

that's my favorite mind bend of the source platform. Keep going, i do enjoy reading these threads bc i know it's not going to be about the Bible... sick of those threads :/ 
 
I hear ya, it's a shame we can't go into the fun stuff. Still arguing about minor things, things that really don't even pertain to the soul and the Source. 

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#33
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@secularmerlin
I don't discount anything
You also don't accept anything lol. So getting you to not discount something is next to impossible. Even if everything I say is stone cold true, it will have no effect because of your mentality.
but until we have some concrete evidence (as opposed to testimonial evidence)
That is about as concrete evidence you will ever have dude. Not like evidence where we can duplicate in a lab but come on bro...look at the sheer volume of spirituality, religion and spiritual encounters. Look at the flat out evidence of NDE's, I mean what more kind of evidence do you need to support a reality that is transcendent of the physical sense perception? if you answer that question maybe we could move forward, keeping in mind that a method like science is only concerned with the natural material world because it has no medium to reach that reality. At some point you will have to acknowledge that and take a long hard look and just consider what I'm saying here. You get all your information from others, but when it comes to Theism you suddenly act like you don't know anything. 
we cannot know what processes were involved in creating the universe
We've observed those processes, I'm assuming you believe they are purely natural. However in order for God to create something there is first a process. Key number one, look at how energy acts in creation, this should really be something that alarms people but unfortunately the materialistic agenda has been pushed so much people are just numb to it.
if "creating" is the right word.
Creating is a process, goes without saying...
If you just want to give your best guess you certainly may but guessing is all we can do.
Lol, no guessing needed. I have my own experiences as well as an abundance of EVIDENCE to cross reference. Why would I need to guess when we have commonsense, logic, evidence and the science of spirituality and the created worlds.

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#34
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@Mopac
See, I can already tell that your Christology is not in line with what the church believes and teaches.

All things come out of the One including Jesus, sorry to burst your bubble there. You act like you don't read the Gospels. The only Church is the teachings of Jesus and those who abide in that it has nothing to do with religious institutions, so you can never convince me that your Catholic club is anything but a farce. 

That could be a good discussion if you are interested.

Not at all, with you anyways.
#35
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@EtrnlVw
Yet, the church not only wrote the gospels you read, but also determined the books that are contained in your new testament.

By The Church, I of course mean the historic and actual real church, not the church of your prelest.




#36
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Just like Mopac, here we have EtrnlVw repeating the same delusional nonsense he's been spouting for ages and no matter how many times it's explained to him that testimonial evidence is not evidence for the existence of something, he ignores it and just keeps on repeating his ridiculous mantra over and over like a stuck record. And as usual, he childishly calls others names and insults them when his garbage is being questioned or criticized. But he is above all of us in that we are supposed to take his word hook, line and sinker without a shred of evidence. He then confirms his delusions by admitting:

It's irrelevant what man claims as far as what exists, but man is the only one who can acknowledge that dum dum. 
He just sank his own argument. Yes, it is irrelevant what you claim as far as what exists, EtrnlVw, thank you for acknowledging that dum dum.
#37
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you can never convince me that your Catholic club is anything but a farce. 
Why do you not understand that what the both of you say is nothing but a farce?
#38
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@EtrnlVw
I hear ya, it's a shame we can't go into the fun stuff. Still arguing about minor things, things that really don't even pertain to the soul and the Source. 
Isn't that the most frustrating thing in hell? You want to talk about your evidence, you want to talk about your logic, you want to talk about your reasoning, but some asshole calls you irrational off the bat and anything beyond... "well, you can't prove god to 'me' (selfish devils)" ... doesn't even get talked about. It's really sad, but it does fit into my belief however. This is a movie man... some characters are what they are... it's funny bc if they could easily change... they'd prove me wrong.  
#39
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until we have some concrete evidence (as opposed to testimonial evidence)
That is about as concrete evidence you will ever have dude. 
No amount of insufficient evidence will ever add up to sufficient evidence and only one piece of sufficient evidence wpuld be enough all on its own.

#40
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@secularmerlin
No amount of insufficient evidence will ever add up to sufficient evidence and only one piece of sufficient evidence wpuld be enough all on its own.
But what if ... the observer, lets say that's me, has had sufficient evidence? I can't prove that evidence bc as far as i know... it only happened to me. Therefore, what if there are people with sufficient evidence... just not enough for it to be proof. And, all proof means is that it's for everyone. Wouldn't spirituality make more sense if it's only for the observer and not for everyone? If everyone had the same evidence as i did... they would be exactly like me... how boring would life be if everyone is the same? I don't see what good sufficient evidence would do anyone. If Christians can prove their belief... we all have to be Christian. If Muslims prove their belief... we all have to be muslim. I personally don't want objective proof of spirituality. I think it's perfect as it is... i don't see why you would want "sufficient evidence" which i'm construing to mean proof. 
#41
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@Outplayz
If you cannot prove the evidence to me then it is not evidence for me. As to actual proof of spirituality my desires are completely immaterial. If there is no sufficient evidence then I cannot believe and if there is sufficient evidence then I must believe.

#42
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@secularmerlin
If you cannot prove the evidence to me then it is not evidence for me. As to actual proof of spirituality my desires are completely immaterial. If there is no sufficient evidence then I cannot believe and if there is sufficient evidence then I must believe.
I agree with you. Like i said, i think when you are saying sufficient evidence, you mean objective evidence that would prove it real for you too. I agree there is none of that. However, when i talk to you about why i'm spiritual (at least in my case) i have enough evidence to suspect there is something going on. Of course, testimonial evidence i really flawed... i know this first hand being a paralegal. But, there are credible testimonials. That's why i always say, even if i put my experiences aside, there is enough testimonial evidence in this world to suspect a spiritual platform. This isn't anywhere close to proof... and if proof is your standard, i agree with you... continue being you bc you're right. I can't prove it. No one can at this point. But, i've had enough experiences, as an agnostic minded person, to say ... you know what... there is something more than just coincidence and randomness. And this makes me think... if it's happened to me to a point that it's mind bending... i wonder what others have experienced... i wonder. That wonder is the only proof we have at this point. Bc whatever we know today will be flipped upside down. Will it one day prove spirituality, or not... i don't know. But i think there is enough for us not to ignore spirituality. Which to me just means realities beyond ours and intelligences beyond ours. I don't think that's unreasonable from what we currently know as a whole... not just off the standard of proof.   
#43
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@Outplayz
I would argue that any belief without sufficient evidence (and as you say testimonial evidence, even our own, is deeply flawed) cannot be rational.


#44
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@secularmerlin
I would argue that any belief without sufficient evidence (and as you say testimonial evidence, even our own, is deeply flawed) cannot be rational.
We are just different then. Bc if the standard is sufficient evidence... i personally have that. So my suspicions aren't irrational. But i know i don't have proof. So i also agree with you that it would be irrational if i told you to believe what i do. However, it is further irrational (imho) to think what we currently know is shit... We really don't know much. To me, proof means what i can prove today. I don't agree with that standard bc i think we are still monkeys. Maybe i'm wrong and we are at our greatest understanding... but i would put all my money down that i'm not wrong.  

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@Outplayz
What is the difference between sufficient evidence and proof?

#46
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@secularmerlin
I guess if there is a difference, it would be what we can prove to today vs. what is possible. 
#47
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@Outplayz
What is possible? What does that have to do with what is?
#48
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@secularmerlin
What is possible? 
At this point... if i can say so very solipsistically... only my mind exists. So, the implications of that can be pretty wild.

What does that have to do with what is?
Honestly, i just want "what is" to create my belief.

#49
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@Outplayz
As charming as that idea is there is no evidence to suggest that reality bothers itself very much about what we want.
#50
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@secularmerlin
As charming as that idea is there is no evidence to suggest that reality bothers itself very much about what we want.
Maybe. But... should reality eternally give us what we want?

#51
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@Outplayz
Should is inconsequential. Reality is as Reality does. 
#52
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@secularmerlin
Should is inconsequential. Reality is as Reality does. 
I agree it's inconsequential. Reality is what i have. I will go through its suffering and happiness. My point is... i wouldn't be who i am in this life if that didn't continue. I'd be something else... same as dead and gone in my opinion. So if i don't die... it's going to be the same ole'shit, but maybe i can throw some Goku power into that suffering.   
#53
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@secularmerlin
Reality is as Reality does. 
Btw... that is why i haven't counted out "god" personally... although my reasons are a lot more twisted than a Christians.

#54
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@Outplayz
Anything outside our local spacetime (otherwise known as physical universe) and honestly most of the stuff in it are unknown variables. Unknown variables give us no actionable data. It is meaningless from pur perspective. It has no impact.
#55
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@Mopac
Name one god who is not claimed by man to exist.
Your ultimate reality is only claimed by you. You must be a god creator.
#56
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@ET

It's irrelevant what man claims as far as what exists
You haven't provided a god yet who is not the claim of man.
Men claim things exist and we can accept those claims if the is proof of that existence, your gods have no proof so the ignorant, primitive, superstitious claims of their existence can be rejected.
Of course if you could provide proof that any of your gods exist and this proof can be examined and found to be acceptable then you would be having a different discussion, but you have no proof.
#57
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@ET
Nope, the laws of creation are tied to Karma
Prove it.
#58
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@ET
"God" is, an eternal consciousness.
Prove it.
#59
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@secularmerlin
It is meaningless from pur perspective. 
Is it meaningless if it has the potential to create gods?

#60
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@Outplayz
What would your gods be created by other than man I mean?