How Did You Become An Atheist?

I remember being 10 or so and asking my parents why god made humans.

They said, "so we could worship him".

I remember thinking this sounded idiotic. [LINK]

From an outsider's point of view.  I too would find that very irksome.  I would put that in the category of accusing you of being a liar, which is probably the debate trick I hate the most out of all of them. 

indeed. 

I love that series so much.  That god assessment that Dewey gave was spot on. 

The most honest way of me addressing your critics is that I think it is awfully arrogant of you, an outsider, correcting me, an insider, after I told you it is a mystery religion.

You are the freshman trying to teach the professor. A tourist to my country trying to explain my culture to me.

No, you are very much in the dark, and the same pride that has afflicted you with the know-it-allism to contradict my explanations is the same pride that has you reducing us to the same level.

If you want to learn, I am here to teach. If you want to ask questions, don't be haughty about it. 

A mystery in the context of Orthodox Christianity is something to be experienced, not a question to be answered.

So on the first point.  You say I can't know because I'm an outsider.  That doesn't logically follow.  If you want me to believe this, you're going to have to show me something that you can know as an insider that I couldn't possibly know as an outsider. 

You're assuming that the freshman couldn't teach the professor.  What if the professor was unqualified and the freshman was an expert in that field who was going for a different degree?  The status of freshman and professor don't automatically give them knowledge that the other didn't have.  The titles are there for reasons outside of their intelligence levels.  

A tourist could know more than a local.  The tourist could be an expert on foreign culture.  Possibly have a P.H.D. in it, but simply never visited the country.  While the local could have literally no interest in local culture and knows nothing about their own area.   America is a good example of this because the foreigners are required to know more about the country than citizens do. 

Saying that I'm prideful and have know-it-all-ism are just personal attacks on me.  They have nothing to do with the truth of the matter.  This proves nothing accept that you think personal attacks prove truth apparently. 

Ahh yes.  I see this argument touted about quite often.  You're the master and I'm the student.  So how dare I know something that you don't.  How about we learn from each other instead of trying to make this a one way street?   

Okay, so you're redefining mystery.  By your definition, literally anything could be a mystery.  So your definition is vacuous.  It's the same as saying a thing is a thing.   Yes, that's technically true, but it doesn't give us new knowledge about anything. 

You don't know my religion.

It's really that simple.

How do you know that?  What if I do know your religion?  You're making assumptions.  

You're just dodging my rebuttals.  If you can't specifically name one thing that I couldn't know about your religion as an outsider and then show me why that would logically have to be the case, then you're not doing anything but hand waving me away.  

Do you care about the truth?  Or would you rather just deny me?  Because if that's all you're here to do is neigh say, then you're wasting both of our time. 

Your "rebuttals" are proof to me that you are simply being argumentative and have no intention of understanding what you falsely believe you understand already.

Objectively speaking, if somebody was to read both of our rebuttals and judge who was making a better effort to be honest, I think they would pick me.  The difference between us is that I'm giving reasons for my contention and you're simply just contending without any reasons.  

I don't have a problem with your neigh saying.  It's when you neigh saying and then don't provide an explanation. 

No if you intend to continue the conversation, then I would suggest you put aside the notion of who is wrong or right and simply just give honest and complete responses.  That is how we find truth. 

If you could provide explanations for what you say, then I might actually be in a position where I can't rebuttal you.  That's the point. 

Merriam Webster defines mystery as

"a religious truth that one can know only by revelation and cannot fully understand"

Now to relate that to Orthodoxy, a mystery is not figured out, it is experienced. The knowledge that is revealed is not simply "gnosis" or knowledge but "epignosis". True knowledge that comes from experience.

The simple example is that thanksgiving is not something to figure out, it is something to live. To experience. To simply intellectualize it is only a shadow of the real thing.

A thing can be more than one thing.  Yes, technically, I experience a mystery, but I can also figure out a mystery.  

Who killed this lady?   It's a mystery.  I'm experiencing it.  Then I catch the guy.  So it's something that I experienced and something I figured out all at once. 

Your definition is technically true but assumes that it is possible. 

It's like a realicorn. 

a realicorn is defined as a unicorn that is actually real.   It's the same as yours.  

You don't figure out marriage. Lol

The type of mystery you speak of has a conclusion. It is not really the same thing. You live thanlsgiving, you don't simply "get it" so to speak.

I became one simply by becoming more aware of the world around me. I grew up in a somewhat Catholic household, my family didn't stress it too much, but there were Christian influences, etc.

I became aware of other religions, how people believe in other deities with just as much conviction as people believe in the god of the bible, how there is no good evidence in support of any deity, so I stopped holding God in such high regard. The way I see it, these religions have been around for thousands of years and they still can't get their story straight amongst themselves.

And then I looked at stories in the bible like Noah's ark and realized how implausible they were. And then how the bible assumes we have free will opens up another can of worms as free will doesn't exist, so to base an entire religion on that false premise messes up everything else.  

There's nothing mysterious about marriage.  You laugh, but it's your definition that leads to strange ideas like that, not mine.  My definition of a mystery is the  colloquial one and there is no confusion over it. 

I think you're missing the point.  You're just taking every experience and naming it a mystery.  That's cool, but it's not giving us new information.  You might as well just say that Christianity is an "everything religion" because that's what your statements equate to.  I see these types of logical backflips often.  I'm willing to bet that you don't do those types of backflips with other logical things.  Don't you find it odd that you have to work so hard to justify your religion? 

Nice story.  I think we've all had that journey at some time or another.  I didn't know about the failings of religion when I stopped believing, but when I did find out, it certainly helped to reinforce my lack of belief. 

The definition I used is literally the first one in the dictionary I cited. But you make light of what I am saying so you can poo poo it away with little thought. If you are struggling with this, you would have a rougher time with the deeper things.

I think something you fail to realize is that my religion is well over a thousand years older than the English language. I am simply relaying to you what the church teaches. 

You are trying to so hard to refute my religion and you don't even understand it. I think that is far more foolish than what you falsely accuse me of doing.

As I believe I said earlier, you are being haughty. 

And that is how you are an atheist. In your foolish pride, you lean on your own understanding. And being full of pride as you are, you will likely simply point back at me and go "No you are!" Instead of considering the possibility that you might be wrong about something.

As I said before, my religion is Truth worship, and so when you deny my God, you are denying The Truth, and even though you aren't doing it with knowledge, it reflects in the way you are interacting with me. If you cared about truth, you would try to get on the same page as me rather than rush into rebuttal mode.

Okay, so you picked a dictionary that had the first definition as a religious one.  I could probably find a dictionary that has it as a secular one. In fact. 

Oh look at that.  It's the 4th usage on this list, which was literally the first dictionary I found.  It looks like somebody was cherry picking. 

Is the church God?  Is the church omnipotent.  Why should I believe the church over webster?  Let's say I accept your definition, That just makes your definition a belief.  Can you support your belief? 

Who said I was trying to refute your religion?  I haven't even gotten to your religion because you haven't made an argument for it.  All you've done is define your personal word usages.  Which is not an argument but a preparation for one.  So what's your argument for your religion being true?  Why should I believe you over a muslim or a hindu or an atheist or even a Satanist for that matter?  You think your religion is so special that you get to come in here and just declare it true with no proof?  I don't think so.  Not on my watch.  You bring proof or you bring nothing. 

That's rich.  I'm the one who said we should set aside what's right or wrong and learn from each other.  You're the one who's spent this whole time name calling me and telling me that I'm wrong.  The irony of that might be lost on you though. 

Simply calling your religion truth worship doesn't make it so.  We're talking about a religion that condones rape and slavery.  If that book has truth in it.  Then it's the truth about god's evil plan to make humans suffer for his own amusement. 

If you really wanted to understand, you would adopt a different approach.

As it stands, you won't get anything out of what I say.

Lets go back to a previous post of mine.

"Orthodox Christianity is apodictic(self evident) truth expressed in mysteries, allegories, and parables......Christianity is literally Truth worship, and we do this through the purifying of the nous, which usually gets translsted as intellect, understanding, mind, or even heart, but has more to do with what influences us and compromises our ability to live in truth."

What abiut this doesn't sound like truth worship to you?

Well.  For starters, it's not self evident.  If God was self evident, then we could witness him existing.  

Also, there is nothing in your description that helps to verify that it is actually worshipping the truth.  It is simply claiming to worship the truth.  

What if I said Satan was self evident and the truth and I'm worshipping him?  Would you believe me?  I'm guessing no.  So what should I believe you.  Justify it and I'll believe it.  It's that simple. 

The Truth is God.

It is self evident that The Truth exists, right?

If you love The Truth with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, there is a right way to do this. The active work of purifying the nous.

Or as it is expressed in the trinity, worshipping The Father in Spirit and Truth.

Your god was a member of a pantheon of gods, what happened to the rest?

If you do it right you do.

IT didn't' take you too long to defaut to your boring and nauseating mantra. Did it.

I suppose this is the end of the thread now as it will die a death by you repeating the same one line  crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over and over and crap over and over and crap over and over

spam

It is a condescension to slow learners who have to hear it over and over, an epiphany to those who believe, and a theophany to those who see.