207 Killed In Sri Lanka by Muslims

Author: Vader

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#31
Stephen
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@disgusted
Stone your none virgin daughter to death and stone your disobedient children to death and stone homosexuals to death. You don't know much do you?
That will be you who knows absolutely nothing. But please do not turn someones thread into an argument just because you cannot string one single coherent and factual sentence together. It is rude and not fair on the OP.
#32
Stephen
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@TheRealNihilist
Okay then. I specifically meant Muslims as foreigners since I haven't heard him speak about Europeans.

I have criticized Christianity and avidly questioned and scrutinised the New Testament much more often than I ever have Islam. But that seems ok with with the islam apologist here. it is only when I question and criticise Islam that they start crying foul.
#33
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@TheRealNihilist
 If we actually followed the way he speaks about Muslims ......

Such as? Lets here right now you buffoon.
#34
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@Snoopy
How can we say that the attackers are abiding by Islamic doctrine, rather than corrupting or misrepresenting its meaning?

Do you know of  another sort of Islam other than what is written in the quran. If so , why is it that the violent Islamic extremist don't know about it?

I eagerly await your reply.
#35
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@TheRealNihilist
Islam is a Religion.
 It is a ideology AND followed by muslims...... PLURAL!!!!
#36
secularmerlin
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@TheRealNihilist
Do tell me if I am asking to much 
You are welcome to set your own standards which a claim must meet before you will believe (I might go so far as to say that you have no choice but to follow said standard) but asking others to live up to this standard before making claims may be a fools errand. 

All you can do in such situations is withhold belief. 
(Do tell me if) this is not need for him to substantiate his point. 
I personally do not feel he has substantiated the claim that muslims are necessarily more dangerous than any other group of humans if that is what you are asking.
#37
Stephen
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@TheRealNihilist
So it should say Islam was the Religion blamed for the attack not "Muslims were the religion to blame for the attack"

Cobblers. Those who carry out these terrorist attacks such as those in Manchester and behead soldiers in the middle of London are muslims PLURAL!!! Who are you to say that these Islamic adherents are not muslim? Or is there another type of islam that you also know about, that these MUSLIMS do not know about?
#38
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@Stephen
Maybe but not on the instruction of the Christ 
Irrelevent. The teachings (whether they encourage violence or not) do not prevent the violence but are rather used as a justification for the violence throughout history including in the history presented in the bible itself.

#39
Snoopy
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@Stephen
Islam is a Religion.
 It is a ideology AND followed by muslims...... PLURAL!!!!

That's a fair point. True Christianity is non-ideological, and if Islam can be classed under a definition of religion, it still seems to differ in that respect.   
#40
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@secularmerlin
Maybe but not on the instruction of the Christ 
Irrelevent. The teachings (whether they encourage violence or not) do not prevent the violence but are rather used as a justification for the violence throughout history including in the history presented in the bible itself.

Are you sure you aren't conflating the teachings, with what people deem to be "good" and therefore worth fighting for?
#41
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@Snoopy
Please define true christianity without committing a no true Scotsman fallacy.
#42
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@Snoopy
Are you sure you aren't conflating the teachings, with what people deem to be "good" and therefore worth fighting for?
I am examining the utility of belief which is separate from the content of belief.

#43
Stephen
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@secularmerlin
Maybe but not on the instruction of the Christ 
Irrelevent. The teachings (whether they encourage violence or not) do not prevent the violence but are rather used as a justification for the violence throughout history including in the history presented in the bible itself.

To say that is irrelevant is not only an opinion - your opinion - but it is totally wrong. The Christian church, it cannot be denied has involved itself in wars believing god was on its side as  do all religions. This does not mean they follow the direct instructions of their god because  they don't. In fact these "christian conflicts" are in total opposition to what the Christ  of the New Testament  himself is said to have taught.  Don't try to play that old Judeo /Christian card, because that is absolute bullshite. It  implies a shared ideological kinship between Jews and Christians. This simply isn't true. There isn't any. 

#44
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@Stephen
The Christian church, it cannot be denied has involved itself in wars believing god was on its side as  do all religions.
In this we agree.
This does not mean they follow the direct instructions of their god
As an atheist I do not believe thay any human is following the direct instructions of any god(s). Even if they were that is irrelevant to the utility of belief. If beliefs can be used to justify violence then the actual content of said beliefs is beside the point.
#45
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@secularmerlin
As an atheist I do not believe thay any human is following the direct instructions of any god(s). Even if they were that is irrelevant to the utility of belief. If beliefs can be used to justify violence then the actual content of said beliefs is beside the point.

That's not necessarily so when you consider the societal aspect of how Muslims (real people) approach the problems they encounter. 


#46
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@Stephen
 a shared ideological kinship between Jews and Christians. This simply isn't true. There isn't any. 
I am not discussing the ideology of either religion when I say that many Christians claim both that the old testament is an accurate historical document and that the Hebrews depicted in it were justified in there violent actions because of the Devine mandate of the same god they claim to worship. 

#47
TheRealNihilist
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@Stephen
I have criticized Christianity and avidly questioned and scrutinised the New Testament much more often than I ever have Islam.
Evidence says otherwise. Do you want me to go through your entire forum posts? I just went through the recent ones and it does state that you criticize Islam more than Christianity. 
But that seems ok with with the islam apologist here.
I think you must be delusional. I have shown evidence of your most recent post more about Islam than about Christianity. You have brought a claim with no evidence. Do you have any evidence apart from your word? If you didn't see it in a 2 page forum post. I will post it here as well.
It is a ideology AND followed by muslims...... PLURAL!!!!
What is your point?
I know there is more than one follower of Islam but that doesn't mean they follow every single verse like a fundamentalist. You have yet to give a reasonable argument against how to clearly lay out your point. Can you or are incapable of rational thought? 
#48
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@Snoopy
That's not necessarily so when you consider the societal aspect of how Muslims (real people) approach the problems they encounter.
I fail to see the difference between this and the 
societal aspect of how any people approach problems they encounter. The content of the belief would not seem to always inform the approach to problems used by the believer when using the belief as a justification for violence.

#49
Snoopy
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@secularmerlin
So, in one respect you are coming from something that makes sense.  If your leg causes you to sin, than it is better to cut it off than walk into hell.  But you go too far in that you are disregarding societal problems.  For one, humans cannot be thought of as robots, and a morally inclined solution to such a problem is not going to be of a strictly rational basis.
#50
Stephen
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As an atheist I do not believe thay any human is following the direct instructions of any god(s).
Then that is irrelevant. The point is , Christians - those that do believe, have,  in the past have believed god to be on their side because their church leaders told them so. It was nothing more than a rally call to the ignorant "Christian".. 
But the ignorant of those times didn't read, they simply followed. If they had read , then many would have known that violence was against the teaching of the Christ.These are facts that simply cannot be denied. .

If beliefs can be used to justify violence then the actual content of said beliefs is beside the point.

Not if it able to be questioned, which in medieval European /English times it wasn't able to be questioned. The masses were simply  not educated enough. Islam is different and is acted upon differently. It hasn't gone through a reformation and it won't go through one :  it is still stuck in the 7th century and there are muslims who are happy for it to stay that way. . And  I would agree that not all Pakistani muslims for example, can't speak English never mind Arabic. But the quran makes no secret of its goals and reasons for those goals. These are facts that some just love to deny. 


#51
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@Snoopy
For one, humans cannot be thought of as robots, and a morally inclined solution to such a problem is not going to be of a strictly rational basis.
This actually highlights what I am talking about. A rational understanding of any given ideology is irrelevant to the behaviors that can and are justified by that ideologues proponents.
#52
Snoopy
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@secularmerlin
This actually highlights what I am talking about. A rational understanding of any given ideology is irrelevant to the behaviors that can and are justified by that ideologues proponents.
Now, you are not wrong in saying that people are not saved by knowledge.  I'm not sure why you are repeating this idea that the content is irrelevant to the problem over and over again.  In the real world, while it is not necessarily the root of the problem, it may not always be the case that it is irrelevant. An ideology could actually be a sort of platform on which people relate.  

#53
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@Snoopy
All ideologies have both positive and negative utility and what you consider positive or negative about it will depend greatly on your own point of view but if we are considering violence negative then an ideology promoting peace does not seem to be any guarantee that followers of the ideology will not cite the ideology as a justification for the violence.
#54
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@secularmerlin
I'm not always too keen on the idea of followers.  In this case, if they are cherry picking from an ideology and rationalizing their own chart then I'm not sure of how that term is deemed appropriate.  I have to assume you are referring to a situation in which people worship man as a god.  
#55
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@Snoopy
I'm not sure what you mean by worships man as a god but I have never been presented with sufficient evidence for any thay any actual god(s) exist to worship so  that o my really leaves the inventions of men.
#56
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@secularmerlin
I'm not sure what you mean by worships man as a god

I mean we are talking about ideology.  Ideology is not necessarily a religious thing,  For example, I think what is called "liberalism" (all nationals are free and equal in respect of one another), "nationalism" (sovereign states uniting voluntarily, probably not universally), and "multiculturalism" (different backgrounds, different ways) seem to be in accordance with natural law, and as such I think there is a degree of utility in politics whilst rulers mind their limitations.  You can worship most anything I suppose, just a matter of what one reveres as a god.  You can worship the sun.  You can worship man. 
#57
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@Snoopy
Or one could come to the conclusion that all worship is unnecessary entirely.

#58
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@secularmerlin
One might think. I don't know about that to tell you the truth, but I know you can also worship your self. 
#59
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@Snoopy
You mean narcissism?
#60
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Most religious texts have passages which advocate for atrocities. The Bible, in 1 Peter 2:18, instructs slaves to submit to their masters, including those who are "harsh" (1). 

To saddle the entire Muslim population with labels like "terrorist" seems a bit presumptuous. There are over 1 billion people identifying as Muslim in the world (2). Condemnations of extremists from moderate Muslims is not a new thing (3). Across many countries, Muslim support for ISIS is diminutive. In the US, France, Lebanon, and Israel, over 80% of Muslims support US intervention to eradicate ISIS according to Pew's opinion surveys (4). This is for good reason, as most victims of the tyrannical group happen to be Muslim according to estimates from the Dept. of State (4).

If religion is key to Muslim's action in killing hundreds of people, then why would so many denounce ISIS and affiliated extremist groups? There are a variety of reasons why someone joins a group such as ISIS. Monetary benefit is one. AQAP's appeal in Yemen is evident of this fact as they provide stable income to fighters on par with, and sometimes greater than, the salaries of other regime's fighters (5). Another reason is that ISIS has been able to capitalize on Muslims who feel persecuted by their home countries (6). Many ISIS fighters would consider their own understanding of Shariah law as "weak," indicating other reasons for why they joined ISIS (7). Certainly, there are ideological ISIS fighters who believe that they are doing exactly what is suggested in the Quran or the religion's many Hadiths. But, to suggest that religion is the driving motivator for all ISIS fighters is an oversimplification.

Put another way, "50 percent of Americans in general say that violence in the name of Islam does not represent Islam—75 percent say the same of Christianity (8)."