Does God Fore ordain? or only see the future and react to it?

Author: Melcharaz

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#31
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@Melcharaz
What we know is irrelevant, your god knows that he creates billions of souls to be tortured for eternity. Please don't quote ancient, primitive desert dwellers as some form of authority, they aren't.
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#32
Melcharaz
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@disgusted
You are absolutely right, primitive desert dwellers don't know beans about God,  Thats why holy men moved on by the spirit of God wrote the bible.

Billions? where are you getting that number from? do you billions of people who don't believe in God?
#33
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@Melcharaz
Primitive desert dwellers wrote the books that invented the god you claim inspired the primitive authors to write the books inventing this god.
Do you have any idea how many primitive societies invented gods?
There have been (estimated) 100 billion humans to have existed, how many of them have believed in your yahweh god?
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#34
Melcharaz
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@disgusted
Actually the first writer was moses as far as we know (idk who wrote job) and He had direct communication with God.
Im sure many primitive societies invented Gods, the ones you need to watch out for are the ones who had a God revealed to them.

How would i know how many people believed in God?
#35
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@Melcharaz
the ones you need to watch out for are the ones who had a God revealed to them.
And none of those exist. All gods are the creation of man's fear and imagination.

How would i know how many people believed in God?

I thought that from this statement you were claiming to.
do you billions of people who don't believe in God?
So even if half (not at all likely) believed then your god created at least 50 billion souls to be tortured for eternity, how does someone worship such a creature?

What language did moses write in? BTW Moses never wrote a word of the bible. Did yahweh god ever dictate to the primitive authors?

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#36
Melcharaz
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@disgusted
easy! just obey his word and you don't have to worry about it! If you want a life of sin, you can have it! sin doesn't stop on this life, it continues in hell and in the lake of fire.  But righteousness and peace endures too!
#37
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@Melcharaz
you do have a choice because you don't know.  Its like tv tropes of disarming a bomb, you can chose the red wire or the blue wire. one of them will potentially disarm the bomb, the other will set it off, but if you do nothing it will go off anyways!
Being ignorant of your fate does not mean it is not your fate, or that you have a choice. It is quite simple. The following three statements cannot logically all be true.

1. God knows I will cut the red wire first.
2. God is never wrong.
3. It is possible for me to cut the blue wire first.

The fact that I am ignorant of which wire I will cut does not mean it is possible for me to cut the blue wire. Ignorance of fate is not the same thing as choice. If only one alternative is possible, then any choice is just an illusion. 
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#38
Melcharaz
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@Stronn
You stress the fate regardless of action, i stress intention and action regardless of fate. Everyone should at least try if they really want God and salvation.
#39
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@Melcharaz
According to fatalism, you would essentially be correct, however it was also their choice to agree with it and refused to love or serve God

Then it sounds no better than Islam, is it?  The quran teaches love, obey and submit to allah or burn in hell. Which also proves that there isn't the "free will " a phrase  Christians just love to bandy around.

Could you show me anywhere in the New Testament where this threat is spoken and laid down by the Christ?
#40
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@disgusted
Primitive desert dwellers wrote the books that invented the god you claim inspired the primitive authors to write the books inventing this god.
Do you have any idea how many primitive societies invented gods?
There have been (estimated) 100 billion humans to have existed, how many of them have believed in your yahweh god?

Do you not have any other argument but to keep repeating over and over and over the same fkn sentences over and over and over?.  I know 10 years old children that could argue against these  statements of Melcharaz better than you and with good sound logic. . But is all you can do is repeat OVER and OVER and OVER :

" there is no god" - "the bible was written by men" -  "men created gods". It is one way to get your post count up I suppose.

Have you ever, just once tried to deconstruct what it is someone is claiming? Instead of just spouting the same old crap over and over and over?

You really are a boring nauseating tit . 
Now go cry to a mod about me insulting you by calling you a tit , you boring tit.

 
#41
TheRealNihilist
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@Melcharaz
I don't why people are speaking to you when they have shown you a logical contradiction.
You don't care it is a contradiction instead go about your day like it doesn't matter.
Why are you having this conversation when you are incapable of having your mind changed or know when you are wrong about God?


#42
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@Melcharaz
We can make this easy with a few yes/no questions:

  1. Is your God omniscient (all knowing)? - yes
  2. If the future is known, does that logically necessitate fatalism? - yes
  3. Is God the creator of all things, including preordained fate? - yes
  4. Is it possible to escape or change a preordained fate? - no
  5. If God created Bob, preordained his fate, and Bobs ends up in Hell, is that Bob's fault? no
    1. Is it Gods fault? - yes
If you answered differently to any of these questions you're just being incredulous and/or disingenuous. 

#43
Goldtop
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Almost? guess I have to work harder on that for ya....

Try using your sock puppet, Melchanaz.
#44
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@Goldtop
Try again sweety.
#45
TheRealNihilist
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@Goldtop
Are you polytheist-witch?
#46
EtrnlVw
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@TheRealNihilist
Lol
#47
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@EtrnlVw
I am getting that feeling with the "sock puppet" phrase.

#48
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stevie wonder.
Why would you come to a text only medium when you are incapable of understanding words?
Don't talk to me when you have me blocked it just confirms your cowardice, you pathetic wannabe.
#49
Goldtop
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Try again sweety.

Sorry EtrnlVw, but I'm not gay. And, you shouldn't be coming on to others on a public forum, could be considered harrasment.
#50
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@TheRealNihilist
Are you polytheist-witch?
Are you brain dead?

#51
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@Goldtop
Are you brain dead?
Why are you copying her then?
The "sock puppet" word I am sure was first said by polytheist-witch.


#52
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@TheRealNihilist
The "sock puppet" word I am sure was first said by polytheist-witch.
"The first documented use of the term "sockpuppet" dates back to July 9, 1993"


#53
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@Melcharaz
You stress the fate regardless of action, i stress intention and action regardless of fate.
I stress logic. You ignore it.

Fate means there can be only one action.
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#54
Melcharaz
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In general, what i see is a failure to understand scripture and to consider there are things people assume aren't logical, however are.  The Lord pre ordains, the Lord decides who goes were, The lord Makes good and creates evil.

There is the possibility of changing your fate however, not in the sense of God, but in the sense of physical. Those who are fore ordained for destruction are those who have a evil heart of unbelief, while those who might be saved are the ones who will believe.

So if you refused to believe the scripture, you only validate God and his fatalism, if you believe in God, to you is the Gift of salvation.  As to why God has fore ordained people to destruction? romans 9 talks about that.   I speak of the mystery of the gospel, how God fore knew and predestined those to salvation.

Whether you believe God or simply want to find fault with him, or you accuse me of being illogical is no longer my problem, believe, repent and be baptised and recieve the holy spirit or be damned. Choice is yours, whether you see it as such or not.
#55
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@Melcharaz
The lord Makes good and creates evil. 
Why did "the lord" even bother creating anything..... at all.

It seems to me that the truth is, your lord created everything then he lost complete control of it like some nutty professor. You have had over 2,000 years to come up with answers to these questions and is all you / Christians do is make answers up on the hoof .

You have no understanding of those scriptures, this is why you have regularly contradicted yourself and painted yourself into a corner when challenged on your opinions and or the statements you have made. .  


#56
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@Melcharaz
In general, what i see is a failure to understand scripture and to consider there are things people assume aren't logical, however are.  The Lord pre ordains, the Lord decides who goes were, The lord Makes good and creates evil.
Thus denying freewill and your destiny being your choice. God creates billions of souls every day to torture for eternity.
There is the possibility of changing your fate however, not in the sense of God, but in the sense of physical. Those who are fore ordained for destruction are those who have a evil heart of unbelief, while those who might be saved are the ones who will believe.
Your god is omniscient and yet any peasant can prove your god wrong, oh how funny.
So if you refused to believe the scripture, you only validate God and his fatalism, if you believe in God, to you is the Gift of salvation.  As to why God has fore ordained people to destruction? romans 9 talks about that.   I speak of the mystery of the gospel, how God fore knew and predestined those to salvation.
Your god loves seeing his creations tortured for eternity.
Whether you believe God or simply want to find fault with him, or you accuse me of being illogical is no longer my problem, believe, repent and be baptised and recieve the holy spirit or be damned. Choice is yours, whether you see it as such or not.
Of course you are illogical, you believe in fantasies, that is illogical.
#57
RationalMadman
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God is omniscient, not omnipotent. Until you understand this, you will represent the wrong entity as the God.

The entity that is omnipotent is Fate, God is one level down the power-chain.
#58
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@Melcharaz
VOLTAIRE ?   early 1700's......a realist regarding the CHURCH in his time and the utter absurdity of their "GOD" invention and ideology (idiot-ology)

NIETZSCHE ? another intellectual about 100 years after Voltaire....he to also describes the Christian Church and God farce as nothing more
                        than a glorified concentration camp founded on FEAR and OPPRESSION...

...................and even NOW...."GOD" is identified as some old white guy flying around in a golden chariot with flaming eyes and white horses ! 

All KNEEL....ALL fall to the floor and shake like an imbecile.... for "GOD" is watching you !  and you will be punished for not obeying his commands ?

....of course "GOD" is never present....like visually...he speaks through Carnival Clown Preachers donning Halloween glory Gowns who act like he
would towards all who do not yield to his demands....(sounds like a world class PSYCHOPATH CON ARTIST stagecraft).....

.........POINT ?   =   Christianity and the "GOD" they invented is nothing more than a pathetic HOAX to assimilate and brainwash weak minded 
                               humans into slavery......like NIETZSCHE said.....GOD is DEAD.....only pathetic human psychopaths use this absurd invention
                               as a scapegoat TOOL for slavery and OPPRESSION.....

..............IF their is a "GOD" creator and it has a gender...it would be FEMALE and FRIENDLY not some old "MAN" FOOL who is determined to annihilate his human creation for entertainment purposes....

The Middle East Abrahamic "GOD" garbage is the greatest DISGRACE ever invented and used to abuse humanity on EARTH....

RIS EARTH of these 3 absurd JEW - JESUS - ALLAH God hoax inventions....bring back ZEUS !   at least he partied !


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#59
Melcharaz
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@RationalMadman
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

#60
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@Melcharaz
Sorry, did you think I believe in the Bible?