Collusion

Author: sadolite

Posts

Total: 129
#91
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
Trump was actually more nuanced than everyone else.
Nuanced should not be used in a rally that advocated for what they did.
I think Trump said something reminiscent of leadership, in real time.  Literally, the exact opposite way of viewing things from a racist perspective, and absolutely impossible to perceive as a dog whistle.
"left came violently attacking the other group" Poor choice of words.
"I think there is blame on both sides" Sure good statement followed up later on "you would report it accurately you would say" Sheesh
"but you also had people that were (a pause to think about it) very fine people on both sides" Wow. 
This was only 1minute and 8 seconds. I can't imagine what other stuff he says. He is not good at his choice of words and I don't know how you see that. Please quote what he said that was good. 

#92
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Go ahead and watch it I guess, or choose to be ignorant.  I hate Trump rallies, which is why I was so surprised, because that's what you would expect of Trump, but the way Trump put it is actually a healthy counter to prejudice I think, and I can't believe he was able to put it across in the heat of the moment.  I guess maybe if you don't keep your mouth shut, something good is bound to come out some day
#93
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
Go ahead and watch it I guess, or choose to be ignorant.
I watched 1minute and 8seconds and I found 3 poor choices of words. It is you who is ignorant or thinks saying some bad things in a 16 minutes doesn't make the speech bad. It does because the severity of what he says can overshadow what he said later on. That is why left wing news outlets jumped on when he used the both sides meme.
I hate Trump rallies, which is why I was so surprised, because that's what you would expect of Trump, but the way Trump put it is actually a healthy counter to prejudice I think, and I can't believe he was able to put it across in the heat of the moment. 
I think you have lost it. Oh well. 
  I guess maybe if you don't keep your mouth shut, something good is bound to come out some day
If you are not speaking you can't say something good. 
#94
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Snoopy
Certainly more nuanced than saying the Cambridge cops acted badly....
Topic's author
#95
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,173
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@mustardness
Um no, The law either indicts or it doesn't. There is nothing to be exonerated from if you are not charged with a crime. That's how the law works, don't believe me look it up. There is nothing for Barr to interpret. Muller made no recommendation to indict citing lack of evidence. To continue any further investigation one must show a crime has been committed and one must also show reasonable cause to indict based on evidence. We have two and one half years of investigation that turned up jack shit.
#96
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@Greyparrot
@TheRealNihilist
It is so ironic, that a nuanced statement that intricately carves up the prejudice and ignorance that people consider a lucrative industry is actually put out in a way that caters prejudice and ignorance.  To me, that actually adds to how dead on Trump was.  
#97
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
It is so ironic, that a nuanced statement that intricately carves up the prejudice and ignorance that people consider a lucrative industry is actually put out in a way that caters prejudice and ignorance.
As someone in his position nuanced should not be the target. It should be to remain simple. In order for the message to not be used against him. His nuanced position can come off as dog-whistling to white nationalists. Trump needs to stop mentioning them in some sort of good way. 

#98
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheRealNihilist
It didn't "come off" that way.  People cut off explicit information for money.  There's a market for a negative message apparently that is more valuable than the truth, and we are literally on the topic of stuff like racism and hate so disassociating the good from the bad and detaching it from a side was actually setting a good example. 
#99
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
It didn't "come off" that way.  People cut off explicit information for money.
I saw 1 minute and 8 seconds of it and I found 3 Yikes moments. That is not a good Q and A session.
There's a market for a negative message apparently that is more valuable than the truth
Capitalism sucks if you want the truth.
and we are literally on the topic of stuff like racism and hate so disassociating the good from the bad and detaching it from a side was actually setting a good example. 
Good example? Trump had awful choice of words. I only watched 1 minute 8 seconds of it. I can't imagine how many more I will find if I watched the entire thing.

Remember when you told me you would find information about Venezuela? Do you have any? 
#100
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Heck, who knows why they do what they do.  Maybe 30 seconds explicating that your president is in fact, not dog whistling to white nationalists, is just not worth the air time.  You would think there would be hell to pay in a decent society.
#101
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
Heck, who knows why they do what they do.  Maybe 30 seconds explicating that your president is in fact, not dog whistling to white nationalists, is just not worth the air time.  You would think there would be hell to pay in a decent society.
Like I said earlier capitalism sucks if you want the truth. The truth doesn't sell as well as breaking news. That is why CNN and Fox prioritise that. 

#102
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Well, capitalism is an economic principle, not a moral theory or a way of life.  But yeah, not applying to be in company with those folks

#103
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Snoopy
Well, capitalism is an economic principle, not a moral theory or a way of life.  But yeah, not applying to be in company with those folks
Yes capitalism is an economic principle in which the rich are better off than the poor. In most systems but in the case of this economic principle being followed a poor can work for more and still earn less than a rich person. This happens to be the case I think (willing to change my mind if you have figures saying otherwise) which is why poor are stuck in a poverty cycle incapable of improving their lives as much as people more privileged under capitalism. Regulation can improve truth in news but when you give someone an inch they will take a mile. Meaning when you take something simple like having an additional verification before reporting news this can definitely lead to news like about wars America are currently in being censored due to the power that they had. It would be foolish for the US not to use it but if people did not allow this to be even a place where the government can regulate it would not be a problem. This is not the case which is a good thing. 

#104
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Capitalism is a system where the more productive are richer than the less productive. Capitalism is also a system that punishes greedy people who cannot delay their instant gratification and people who rack up unsustainable debt. Capitalism rewards people who delay instant gratification in order to invest in themselves and save for the future.
#105
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@Greyparrot
More Dollars =/= More Productivity

If More Dollars = More Time

A con job is still a waste of life.

#106
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Snoopy
not really. the entire service industry is a con job. You pay people to make you feel better.
#107
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Capitalism is a system where the more productive are richer than the less productive. 
That is a lie. A teacher would work similar hours to a wall street broker but guess what both do not make similar money. Reason is there is more value in wall street broking compared to being a teacher. This productive argument is false because a poor person can work the same hours as a rich person doesn't mean he will become rich because it is dependent on how much you are being paid not how much you work.
Capitalism is also a system that punishes greedy people who cannot delay their instant gratification and people who rack up unsustainable debt. 
That is because they make poor financial choices not because of some "instant gratification". Jeff Bezos is rich because he kept on working not delaying on "instant gratification". I am sure you would consider poor people using their money for money a bad idea. A rich person called Dana White was so good at gambling that he won more money than he lost. It was because had more capital to work with not because of "instant graitifcation". In the video it stated Dana lost $1 million but gained $7 million. He did so well that the casinos banned him.
Capitalism rewards people who delay instant gratification in order to invest in themselves and save for the future. 
This is also false. In order to gain more money you would have to spend more. No-one in their right mind just sits on capital and does not invest. I am sure to an investor you are wasting time for not even using capital to improve future profitability. 
#108
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheRealNihilist
You are using the classic Marxist brick puncher argument. (also known as mud pie argument)

You are conflating work with productivity. Productivity includes value. Work does not. If you spend 8 hours a day punching bricks, you will not be as productive to society as a teacher working 8 hours.

#109
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheRealNihilist
This is also false. In order to gain more money you would have to spend more.

Consuming is not the same as investing. If a greedy person can't resist the urge to consume for instant gratification, they do not deserve to be rich.
#110
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Greyparrot
You are using the classic Marxist brick puncher argument. 
Can you tell me what that is before you tell me I am doing it?
You are conflating work with productivity. Productivity includes value. Work does not. If you spend 8 hours a day punching bricks, you will not be as productive to society as a teacher working 8 hours.
How do you define productive?
Productive: producing or able to produce large amounts of goods, crops, or other commodities.
Like that? 
#111
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,993
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheRealNihilist
The classic brick puncher argument is also used to justify the 70% gender wage gap argument.
#112
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Consuming is not the same as investing.
I never said consume instead spend. You would have to spend money in order to invest. 
If a greedy person can't resist the urge to consume for instant gratification, they do not deserve to be rich.
Why do you to say that?

#113
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@Greyparrot
The classic brick puncher argument is also used to justify the 70% gender wage gap argument.
I don't know what that is. Do tell me. 
My explanation of the pay gap between classes is wage stagnation. The wages of the median and lower have stagnated whereas the riches wages haven't. 

#114
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@Greyparrot
isn't it true that you have the best chance to work out of poverty in the U.S. than any other country?  Seems "rags to riches" is non existent in many countries and rare in others.  So many stories of poor people immigrating to the U.S. legally working extremely hard and build successful business which allow their children and future generation of the family to live well.  All because of (drum roll) capitalism.
#115
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
If you have the tools, I would give a resounding yes, but I can think of several instances from personal experience where it takes multiple generations for a family to adapt from "thinking poor" relative to their environment.  This goes for old American families as well as recent immigrants.
#116
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@Snoopy
tools?  I've seen many stories of how legal immigrants worked several jobs, usually at a convenient store.  Save money and eventually buy their own or start their own business.  They come with practically nothings, often non English speaking.  Their "tools" are a will to sacrifice and work hard.  Everyone has the tools necessary, not everyone is willing to use them.
#117
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
I think in some ways its actually more intuitive or natural for immigrants to start out with nothing over old American families in that they are immersed into new ways of thinking.  I don't mean tools as in an object that makes your life easer, but more of a mental asset, or a way of going about things.  
#118
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@Snoopy
yeah I would totally agree with that, the modern American way of life is being coddled and entitlements.  They demand more but aren't willing to work for it, where as many of these legal immigrants are.
#119
mustardness
mustardness's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,979
2
2
3
mustardness's avatar
mustardness
2
2
3
-->
@sadolite
The FBI the DOJ and the CIA conspired to overthrow a dully elected president.
We have no evidence of such. They all have followed the rule of law.

Your confused between,

1} what a  coup --illegal overthrow of government--- and,

2} following rule of law to investigate actions of any USA official.

#120
mustardness
mustardness's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,979
2
2
3
mustardness's avatar
mustardness
2
2
3
-->
@sadolite
There is nothing to be exonerated from if you are not charged with a crime.
You will have to speak to barr about that since he may have read the Muellers report and he mentions Trumps is not exonerated.

There is nothing for Barr to interpret.
Then your not paying attention to reality as that is exactly what Barr is doing.  More so your reply to me was posted.

To continue any further investigation one must show a crime has been committed and one must also show reasonable cause to indict based on evidence. We have two and one half years of investigation that turned up jack shit.

"investigation?  You  confused again.  The Mueller investigation is over. Sounds like your trying instate a false narrative, Sad :--(

There are plenty of Trump investigations on going, --if not other associates of his--- and congress and USA people need to have access to Mueller report so it can be investigated based congress and USA citizens interpretation of Muellers findings.

Barr is falling further into the Trumpanzee rabbit hole to keep as much he legally can away from congress and USA peoples.

And he makes contradictory comments of some non-evidentiary conspiracy ---read his words 'spying on Trump'--- by FBI or other intelligence.

First he says there is then he says there is not. Please stop encouraging immoral actions of Trump and all of his Trumpanzee followers.

...