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Author: Discipulus_Didicit

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#181
Mopac
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@BrutalTruth
If it is true that there are no absolute truths, that means that it is an absolute truth that there are no absolute truths.


It doesn't make sense for there to be no absolute truth.

You don't have to know absolute truth to know that it exists.


Does that make sense?



#182
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Nonsense. No more than any Muslim American should "have to say" that they don't support the activities of ISIS. To assume that someone must by default be in support of any extremism which they have not specifically denounced is laughably absurd and allows the perfect breeding ground for the type of propaganda that feeds into the notions of people like Mopac, P-Witch, and others that entire groups of people ought to be demonized and treated as outcasts

Demonizing people is not what Orthodox Christians do. We are taught to love our enemies and to bless those that persecute us. We are against coercion and the use of violence. 

And a saint would sooner be executed as a witness than lift a hand against his or her accusers. 


So you do not understand our way, and that is why I am here, to correct these misconceptions.




#183
keithprosser
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Nonsense. No more than any Muslim American should "have to say" that they don't support the activities of ISIS. To assume that someone must by default be in support of any extremism which they have not specifically denounced is laughably absurd and allows the perfect breeding ground for the type of propaganda that feeds into the notions of people like Mopac, P-Witch, and others that entire groups of people ought to be demonized and treated as outcasts.
'Have to say that' was meant in the 'mandy rice davies' sense..,

Of course in general atheists do not have to apolgise for Stalin.  But I think Mopac's views are coloured by the communist's assault on religion and shouldn't be shrugged off with mocking irony - Mopac is not PW. 

You and I aren't Stalin or Mao... I wish I could be so sure about, say, WoA for instance.
.


#184
BrutalTruth
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@Mopac
I didn't claim that there is no absolute truth. I said I have no ability to know what things are absolutely true.
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#185
Discipulus_Didicit
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@keithprosser
But I think Mopac's views are coloured by the communist's assault on religion and shouldn't be shrugged off with mocking irony

If you were to assume that all Catholics were pedophiles or pedophile supporters because of the scandals involving the Catholic church you would deserve to be ridiculed for that assumption. WisdomOfAges is a good example of this, he says some really ignorant things about religion and deserves to be ridiculed for the ignorant things he says because they breed hatred and intolerance.

The fact that atheists are a minority group compared to religious folk does not make lumping all atheists together any less ridiculous than lumping all of any other group together.

Mopac is not PW.

Mopac insinuates that atheists are genocidal dickholes every few weeks whereas PW outright says it every few minutes. You should not mistake this difference in outward aggression for a difference in inward conviction, however.

I wonder if Mopac has PM'ed you the same literature that he has PM'ed me. It provides interesting, albeit somewhat disturbing, insights into the black-and-white us-versus-them mentality that he harbors.
#186
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@BrutalTruth
If there is a way, it is not through the acquisition of facts, trivia, and knowledge, but through the cleansing of ones heart and mind. Through the purification of the nous.

And we Orthodox Christians know this to be the case, and that is what we teach.

The Absolute Truth is what we call God.




#187
keithprosser
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I wonder if Mopac has PM'ed you the same literature that he has PM'ed me
I don't recall getting any pm's from him.


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#188
Discipulus_Didicit
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@keithprosser
Remember what I said about my comment regarding the OT genocides that you brought up? How I said that I would only direct that comment towards people that defended and tried to justify said genocides?

That right there. That is the difference between people like myself as opposed to people like Mopac and WoA.

I am willing to acknowledge that not every Christian is okay with genocide just because it is in their holy book.

I am willing to acknowledge that not every person that worships Jesus would suport a theocratic regime just because the books say they should.

The vast majority would not support such a theocracy in fact, and I would never lump such people in with atrocities that they had nothing to do with just because they happened to share some religious beliefs with the perpetrators because for me to make such an equivocation would be morally unjustifiable.
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#189
Discipulus_Didicit
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@keithprosser
I don't recall getting any pm's from him.

PM me if you are interested.
#190
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
We certainly do not hate atheists. It would be a lie to say that atheism and nihilism were not fundamentally satanic. We certainly do not advocate genocide, and our holy book is not yours to interpret. It is ours. We don't believe in genocide.


And I am not calling you genocidal, though I have little doubt that if an atheistic socialist government came into power they would persecute the church, as socialists have always been very anti-religious. It has nothing to do with you personally, it is built into it. Every layer of it. 


Fyi though, Orthodox Christianity is a very small minority in the US. What you know as Christianity is not what we know as Christianity.

#191
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I sent it to him.




I recommend the book that it is an excerpt from, I read it last week. Very good read.

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#192
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac
We certainly do not advocate genocide

And I have never once said you do. Never. You have made such insinuations on multiple occasions however, and the emotion manipulating propaganda you get your information from is probably the reason why you do so.
#193
keithprosser
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@Mopac
if an atheistic socialist government came into power they would persecute the church
I am a commited atheist and a commited socialist.  I would like to see a world that was run on rational, scientific principles, (ie not superstitious ones) and where a system resembing "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" applied.

But I do not want such a world at any price, nor do I believe that 'ends justify means'.  I wouldn't support a party that sought to bring about atheism or socialism 'by any means neccessary',  History shows that people who do believe in 'by any means neccessary' are really only seeking power, not the implementation of rationalism or a utopian classless state. 
 

 

#194
Deb-8-a-bull
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@keithprosser
I wish i write like that Keith.
Nice post man. 

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#195
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac
Orthodox Christianity is a very small minority in the US. What you know as Christianity is not what we know as Christianity.

Oh, you live in the US? Then I have very likely already done more at the tender age of 23 to preserve your right to hold whatever religious belief you wish than you ever will do to protect anyone else's right to anything. Ever.

That's okay though, keep telling yourself that I want a socialist takeover of our secular government to persecute you. That it's "built into every layer" of my beliefs.

After all that fits your narrative better than the truth does, doesn't it?
#196
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@WisdomofAges
IDIOT...go pray now to YOUR GOD hoax....just do NOT HARM others with your BRAINWASHED STUPIDITY...GO to YOUR GOD...tell him all of your GOOD DEEDS so he will let you into his amusement park ...Then you can join the millions of other sheeple drone imbeciles..from the Roman catholic CULTand the latter day saint CULT, and the Jehovah's Witness CULT  +++ to many other CULT Parasite organization drones to list.....and KILL EACH OTHER over who is RIGHT.....and be rebornover and over again to keep MURDERING each other for GOD !    FUN !   
Reality check.  Do you support freedom of religion?
#197
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@Mopac
I recommend the book that it is an excerpt from, I read it last week. Very good read.
If you want to know what a "nihilist" "believes" then ask a nihilist.  Don't take some christian's scare-mongering opinion as "fact".
#198
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@BrutalTruth
I didn't claim that there is no absolute truth. I said I have no ability to know what things are absolutely true.
This is an excellent distinction. 

Noumenon exists.  Noumenon is beyond our epistemological limits.
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#199
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac
3RU7AL, Keith, BrutalTruth, and myself... Notice how every single atheist here is shitting on WoA for advocating something you claim we all want to do?

Not a coincidence.
#200
3RU7AL
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@keithprosser
I am a commited atheist and a commited socialist.  I would like to see a world that was run on rational, scientific principles, (ie not superstitious ones) and where a system resembing "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" applied.

But I do not want such a world at any price, nor do I believe that 'ends justify means'.  I wouldn't support a party that sought to bring about atheism or socialism 'by any means neccessary',  History shows that people who do believe in 'by any means neccessary' are really only seeking power, not the implementation of rationalism or a utopian classless state.  
Well stated.
#201
keithprosser
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@Mopac
I recommend the book that it is an excerpt from, I read it last week. Very good read.
I think i'll pass.  Is it not written:

"Let me give you some further advice: Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out." 
#202
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'll have you know that we pray for the armed forces during every liturgy at the church.

And it is very obvious to me that emotions factor more into your thinking than it does to mine. You, after all, cannot help but be offended and react at what I say without thinking. You see insinuations that aren't there. You are suspicious. Your materialistic philosophy is not going to help you with these things. As you have been educated to be blind of spiritual realities, my faith can be nothing but mental illness for you. However, in my faith is the very cure to the passions that rule over you. I don't believe what I do because of the propaganda you think I read. I have real experiential knowledge. 

And I certainly don't hate you. You might be offended that I think you don't know any better, but that is because you don't believe that I do know better. Are you open to that possibility? Probably not.


What you don't understand is that your entire world view is constructed to negate mine. Not by you of course, but the ones who fabricated it. My worldview was not constructed to negate your worldview, it is the other way around. That is why you define yourself as an atheist. It is against God.


And though we Orthodox Christians know to love you regardless, there is a sizable chunk of the world population that not only will not abandon their conception of God, but consider your way such an abomination that they would not allow you to live in open profession of it. Your worldview is a declaration of war against all these people.

And besides that, it is also folly. Of course God exists. Do you really want to identify with a label that effectively means that you reject reality? That is pretty much what it means to reject God! And you don't know that because you don't understand what we believe, but now I am telling you what we believe. The Truth is God. For you to say there is no God is to say there is no truth!


There is only one way the state god of the socialist regime can do away with us, and that is to kill us off. We will not give up our beliefs, and our beliefs are an absolute threat to the godless socialist state.

And you cannot kill The Truth, and neither does The Truth do anything but freely give itself into the hands of those who would dare make the attempt. Crucify The Truth, and behold how it rises again on the third day! 




#203
Mopac
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@keithprosser
Socialism is not what they say it is.

And it is naive to think that a spiritually bankrupt and wicked people could ever create a utopian classless society here on Earth. Socialism is fundamentally an exploitation of people's envy and greed to destroy their own societies and consolidate 99% of the wealth, power  and resources of a country into the hands of the 1%. Yes, the very thing socialists think they are fighting for is what it is they are going to bring about!


And we Orthodox are not materialists. If our faith is practiced the way it is intended, we do everything a socialist country promises to do, and quite naturally! Without coercion!


#204
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@Discipulus_Didicit
3RU7AL, Keith, BrutalTruth, and myself... Notice how every single atheist here is shitting on WoA for advocating something you claim we all want to do?

Not a coincidence

The accusation you claim I am making is all in your head.

I am sure that most communists who brought about the Soviet Union didn't want to kill all the Orthodox Christians either, as that was the majority religion over there! Who wants to kill their own family?

You don't know what you are fighting for, that is the point. I am sure you are a well intentioned person. Now quit thinking I believe otherwise.


#205
Mopac
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@keithprosser

I think i'll pass.  Is it not written:

"Let me give you some further advice: Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out."  


Yet it is also written,

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
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#206
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac

And you have adopted this label as a declaration of war against all who believe in God.

There it is, right there. You are so convinced that anyone not in your in-group must by necessity want "a war against all who believe in God." You have nothing to base this on, and the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Yet because this is what you are conditioned to believe, that is the message that you spread. Fear the outsider. The outsider wants a war.

I'll have you know that we pray for the armed forces during every liturgy at the church.

That's exactly what I said. Some people do something to challenge persecution. You... don't.

Yet you still feel comfortable associating myself and others with persecution simply because we are not part of your in-group. Do you know what it would take for me to be part of your in-group? A simple phone call, that's it.

"Yo Mary, mind if I tag along with the family when you go to church next Sunday?"

"Sure, I'll text you the address in case you forgot since it has been a few years since you visited. See you there."

Just like that I could be a church-going Orthodox Christian. That is the difference between being in Mopac's in-group and being a feared outsider.

#207
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Love perfected casts out fear. I do not fear you, nor any threat to my life here on Earth. I am not of this world.

You are misunderstanding me.


I would gladly bring you to my church if I could. Lent starts on Monday, it might be a good time to go on Sunday. It is meat fare. After that, we do not eat meat until Pascha, which is our Easter. There is bound to be an Orthodox Church somewhere in your area if you wanted to go on your own.

I would be surprised if we lived near eachother, but if you recognize my username, maybe!

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#208
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac
Love perfected casts out fear. I do not fear you, nor any threat to my life here on Earth. I am not of this world.

You are misunderstanding me.

Seems pretty easy to understand. It's a simple 'us vs them' mentality. I am not part of your in-group and am thus baselessly equivocated with being a "threat to your life here on Earth."

I would be surprised if we lived near eachother, but if you recognize my username, maybe!

Seems unlikely. Anywhere near Michigan?

There is bound to be an Orthodox Church somewhere in your area if you wanted to go on your own.

Like I said a few times most of my family is Orthodox, if I wanted to go to the one down the street then I would go with them.
#209
Mopac
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Orthodoxy is not an "Us vs them" faith. 

We love everybody. That is what we are taught to do. That is a real love that comes from recognizing that everyone is made in the image of God. That is how our love of God translates into loving people. 

No, I definitely don't live in Michigan.

There isn't a person here I wouldn't have a cup of joe with or even a beer! That sort of thing does not translate well when I am only known through text. My entire life is dedicated towards helping people. Even my work, which I am about to start has to do with helping deaf people communicate with their loved ones. I don't care what they believe. That isn't really how we Orthodox think.

I give away a good chunk of my money too. One of the people that I give money to is an atheist. Believe it or not, we are good friends.


But see, that doesn't mean that I don't have my own views about things. Of course I believe atheism is Satanic. It absolutely is. It is also very reasonable for me to be suspicious of socialism and communism when the people who believe in it try to pass laws even in my hometown that demand churches to go along with things that violate our beliefs!

Nevermind what they are doing in China. Nevermind what these socialists write about religion. Nevermind the historical precedent of genocide perpetuated by these anti-Christ regimes.

My beliefs have nothing to do with hatred or fear. I am ok with whatever happens. I don't vote. That makes me part of the problem right? I accept that I must live with other people's bad decisions.

We Orthodox are very much against coercion. Free will is a gift from God that we hold in reverence. 

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#210
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mopac
Orthodoxy is not an "Us vs them" faith. 

Where did I say it was? When I said you have an us vs them mentality I was talking about you, not your religion.

You are so used to equivocating individuals with groups that they might be associated with that you automatically assume that I am doing the same. That is very telling.