Democrats cave? What's your take on the CR?

Author: Double_R

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#31
fauxlaw
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@Shila
A minority party has no say in governing.
Anyone who is elected from a minority party - I take your meaning of that to be neither Democrat nor Republican -  has a say within the body in which they reside, but that may not be a majority voice. That's the breaks in a democratic-republic, which we are in the U.S. We have elements of both. You may not like a democratic-republic, but it's a better government than any other ever instituted by man. Longer enduring, as well. Maybe there's a point to that?
#32
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@Greyparrot
@Double_R
Democrats must feel no pulse on the American populace. That's a beat going on only in their heads.
Tell it to Doubler. He does not yet get it.
#33
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@Double_R
Blah, blah, blah. Y'all Demos need a complete re-set after Biden screwed y'all, and you can't even admit his complete dereliction. Auto-signing pardons, and all. Nice. That's dereliction cubed.
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#34
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
I see you don't dispute the big lie repeated ad infinitum about Biden's cognizance.
It's a waste of time. Nobody disputes that 80 year old Biden is not 65 year old Biden, but what you guys pretend is that he's some senile plant drooling on the couch thinking he's King Henry. That's just stupid, but when all you do is watch right wing podcasts that's what you're spoonfed.

Hard X for doubt noting the deafening silence on the left when Biden pissed all over a scotus ruling regarding school loans when they clearly said only Congress had the authority...
If the political right didn't have false equivalences you'd have no argument at all.

After being ruled against Biden found a different way to accomplish what he wanted that fit within the legal framework, the same thing Trump did when he was shot down on his travel ban so came back with a different version that eventually passed muster. Nobody called that a constitutional crisis.

The Trump administration here was told directly to turn the planes around and was just like "nah, you can't tell us that". That is not even in the same ballpark, it's just sheer disingenuousness to claim it is.

Contrast that with a radical leftist judge intervening in matters of the executive authority regarding national defense.
I thought we were comparing Biden to Trump? Oh, I see how this works; just point to anything bad and jumble it all together no matter how irrelevant because it sounds more powerful that way.

This is what not having a real argument looks like.

Just because Donald Trump is utters the magic words "national security" doesn't mean the law and the constitution go out the window. He still needs to provide evidence, especially when it's plainly obvious that he's just using obscure laws as a pretext to do whatever the hell he wants. His own border czar already made clear that he doesn't care what any judge tells them, yet here you are pretending that this administration cares about due process and the rule of law. Its ridiculous.

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#35
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@fauxlaw
and you can't even admit his complete dereliction. Auto-signing pardons, and all.
Do you really want to talk about presidential pardons?
#36
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@Double_R
Nobody disputes that 80 year old Biden is not 65 year old Biden,
Nobody meaning all of corporate left wing media right up until Biden was pressured to drop out of his race. Granted.

Just because Donald Trump is utters the magic words "national security" doesn't mean the law and the constitution go out the window
Not claiming that, but a radical district judge should not have the undisputed power in that area.
#37
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@Double_R
If the political right didn't have false equivalences you'd have no argument at all.
I don't know why this is your go-to defense. I actually claimed the opposite. There is a huge difference between the SCOTUS telling a president he has no authority with an issue the SCOTUS ruled as falling under the duties of Congress.  (and then have the president say he was going to do it anyway, clearly violating the Scotus mandate to leave the issue with Congress)
and...
A radical left district judge claiming HE has the ultimate authority in matters of national security.
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#38
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Nobody meaning all of corporate left wing media
As portrayed by right wing podcasts

Not claiming that, but a radical district judge should not have the undisputed power in that area.
I don't disagree with the level of power these judges can have over the administration, but they're not the end all be all first off all, you guys act like there's no next step in the process. Second, it's just hypocrisy by the right to be so furious over this. You guys had no problem with radical judges stopping Biden or Obama. Funny how every anti abortion case prior to Dobbs ended up in Amarillo Texas.

If the political right didn't have false equivalences you'd have no argument at all.
I don't know why this is your go-to defense.
Because it's absolutely true.

There is a huge difference between the SCOTUS telling a president he has no authority with an issue the SCOTUS ruled as falling under the duties of Congress.  (and then have the president say he was going to do it anyway, clearly violating the Scotus mandate to leave the issue with Congress)
and...
A radical left district judge claiming HE has the ultimate authority in matters of national security.
Another perfect example.

First of all you are blatantly misrepresenting what Biden actually did, probably because of a few ill advised words he gave in a speech.

Congress did not say Biden couldn't relieve student loan debt, they ruled that he couldn't use the Hero's act in the way he was trying so that program had to be stopped. Biden then found another way. Again, this is the exact same thing Trump did with the travel ban by first announcing he was going to invoke a religious test to then get that shut down so he turned it into a geographical ban that just happened to target Muslim countries, but that was too blatant so after tweaking the countries to include non-muslim ones it was allowed to be enacted. Same damn thing, and no one in the left claimed Trump was defying the courts.

Second, you are, as I already pointed out, not even talking about the same things categorically. You're comparing what president allegedly did with what federal judge ruled. Not even the same sport.

Third, you are again, blatantly misrepresenting the ruling. The judge did not say or rule that he is the end all be all on national security, that's just plain stupid. He ruled that the law Trump is invoking doesn't apply at the given time, which is common sense. He's invoking a wartime power during a time of peace, a law that targets other countries against alleged gang members, and didn't even give these individuals a hearing to determine that they are gang members. Trump is just making shit up, that's not how abiding by the law works. The judge is absolutely correct, that's not radical, it's common sense.

This is a false equivalence on top of a false equivalence.
#39
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As portrayed by right wing podcasts
That's not true. Many of these left wing corporate media outlets fully admit they made a mistake by misleading the public on Biden before he was forced out. It's not just MAGA claiming this. They fully know the reason why half their audience left, and people like Gavin Newsom know exactly why people are also leaving his party, and he publicly admits it.

 they ruled that he couldn't use the Hero's act in the way he was trying so that program had to be stopped.
This is a prime example of a misleading statement. You are leaving out the critical reason WHY they ruled that way.
 
I will repeat it for those in the back of the class:
The ruling emphasized that only Congress has the constitutional authority to authorize large-scale spending programs. By attempting to cancel debt without congressional approval, the executive branch exceeded its powers.
Biden promptly let his base know what he thought about that:

common sense, lol
#40
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And again, you do not dispute that the courts are attempting to exercise authority over national security concerns (not relegate it to Congress),  which is arguably an unprecedented violation of the constitutional separation of powers. The courts were never designed to have that kind of over-reaching power. Imagine a lowly district judge turning an aircraft carrier around because he thought a president was a "war criminal"
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#41
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
As portrayed by right wing podcasts
That's not true. Many of these left wing corporate media outlets fully admit they made a mistake by misleading the public on Biden before he was forced out.
Anything and everything that could have went better is a mistake with the benefit of hindsight, which is somehow always 20/20. What I'm talking about is the extreme way you and the rest of the MAGA right loves to portray the situation - as some massive conspiracy to pretend a drooling old man who thinks he's living in 1980 while a nefarious cabal around him works too fool everyone by pronouncing him as the sharpest man on earth.

Has Biden lost a few steps from his peak? Of course. Did the team around him try to hide his lesser moments and showcase his better ones? Yes, of course, that's what every political team and every campaign around every president/candidate does (look at the daily sanewashing of Trump). Were there plenty of people recounting their own anecdotal experiences of Biden being energetic and sharp based on what they've seen and even experienced first hand? Yes, of course.

Nothing about this is remarkable, but you guys act like Biden was replaced by a body double to hide the corpse in the WH residence. Biden showed over and over again that despite his senior moments he was still very aware and capable of making big decisions, but you wouldn't know that when all you see if him are the reels of slip ups and rhetorical stumbles Fox news would compile and play on a loop to satisfy the right's daily thirst for Biden dementia porn.

That's not to say how his cognitive status wasn't an issue, it absolutely was. In any normal race it should have been a major concern, but when his opponent is the most ignorant imbecile in American political history it kind of cancels that out. Trump just yesterday was still talking about how Canada will become the 51st state. Nothing Biden has ever said was that stupid and disconnected from reality.

they ruled that he couldn't use the Hero's act in the way he was trying so that program had to be stopped.
This is a prime example of a misleading statement. You are leaving out the critical reason WHY they ruled that way.
The reason stated was specifically in regards to the way the Biden administration tried to use the law in question. That's how legal rulings work. SCOTUS rules on the question before it, they don't make vague declarations in anticipation of every possible case that may also come before it.

He's a question for you; if Biden's subsequent attempts to relieve student loan debt (as in the ones that were ultimately successful) were in defiance of the Biden v Nebraska ruling why didn't the courts stop him?

Answer: because it wasn't. You would recognize that if you valued rational thought over Twitter posts that sound tantalizing.

you do not dispute that the courts are attempting to exercise authority over national security concerns (not relegate it to Congress),  which is arguably an unprecedented violation of the constitutional separation of powers. The courts were never designed to have that kind of over-reaching power.
The courts are doing exactly what the constitution intended for them to do; act as a check on an executive trying to exercise power he doesn't have. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about national security, the president does not get to throw the constitution in the trash and do whatever he wants. He doesn't get to lie and claim we're at war just so he can invoke emergency powers that were limited to situations that don't apply here in reality. He doesn't get to go around the law by redefining up as down and declaring the sky is green. In the real world, facts matter. Logic matters.

And also, for like the third time now, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with national security. The ruling applies to treatment of individuals already in custody. They are no more a threat to the American people in a federal prison than they are in a Venezuelan prison. This is all a show because that's what Trump is, a reality TV star. MAGA can't tell the difference.

#42
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@Double_R
it kind of cancels that out
It would have only canceled out if Trump resigned due to mental incompetence just like Biden was forced to do. To a far left insider, it's no big deal, but to normal Americans, knowing that the country was rudderless for nearly 4 years with no oversight from the press was a shock enough to walk away....for good it seems.

 Imagine a lowly district judge turning an aircraft carrier around because he thought a president was a "war criminal"
Agreed.
#43
fauxlaw
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@Double_R
Biden's residential pardons have problems outside of using a poxy to sign them. Bills, EOs, pardons, are all actionable documents, and the  law requires that proxies  area signed only with the president and the proxy in the same room, and that has been law since before the Constitution was ratified 230 years ago. And if the president is in the room, why sign by proxy unless the president cannot perform the duties of his office. What's actionable there is the 25A, but Bisden's VP and Cabinet where a coven of cowards.
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#44
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
It would have only canceled out if Trump resigned due to mental incompetence just like Biden was forced to do. To a far left insider, it's no big deal, but to normal Americans, knowing that the country was rudderless for nearly 4 years
For four years the country was in the hands of an educated, experienced and serious man who suffered from moments of confusion. And they were so concerned about that that they replaced him with a childish, ignorant imbecile who lives in a constant state of confusion. Spare me the speech on how concerned "normal" Americans were.

Trump is still talking about making Canada the 51st state, you gonna acknowledge that or just pretend this isn't something you would consider a predicate to stick your grandpa in a group home over?

with no oversight from the press was a shock enough to walk away....for good it seems.
You poor soul, you really think political sentiment is permanent.

Politics is a pendulum, it swung towards Trump in 2016 and everyone freaked out. It swung towards the democrats in 2020 and everyone declared Trump politically dead. Now it swung back to Trump in 2020 and now everyone's pretending there will never be a contested election again (well, actually Trump might see to that).

People voted against democrats in 2020 because they blamed Biden for global inflation. The anger is already boiling over now because Trump has done nothing to fix it and is already making it worse. 2026 and 2028 are not looking good for republicans at all and they all know it. This fantasy you have about a United States never forgetting the drooling delusional scenile old man whose very presence endangered us all thanks to the Democratic party is pure fiction. Voters have already forgotten. Your guy is in charge now and showing the world why America fired him the first time.
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#45
Double_R
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@fauxlaw
if the president is in the room, why sign by proxy unless the president cannot perform the duties of his office. What's actionable there is the 25A, but Bisden's VP and Cabinet where a coven of cowards.
So... A cabinet unwilling to invoke the 25th amendment are a bunch of cowards? Let's remember that...
#46
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
who suffered from moments of confusion..
Again, to someone insulated in a bubble, this statement is not misleading.

So... A cabinet unwilling to invoke the 25th amendment are a bunch of cowards? Let's remember that...

They did the next best thing, forced Biden to drop out of his re-election bid.

You poor soul, you really think political sentiment is permanent.

It is when the Democrats are suffering a political depression with no leader anywhere in sight. Anytime someone competent tries to emerge like Newsom or Slotkin, the radical tail eats the head. Democrats are totally to blame for the impossible position they are in now. They sacrificed their own future for immediate gratification. Natural selection will take care of the rest. This is what happens when you embrace diversity to the extreme, you get a fragmented and unworkable party. That not something that can just swing back.

A party that prioritizes ideological purity and identity-based factionalism over a unifying vision for the future makes it impossible to maintain a cohesive coalition. The obsession with immediate gratification through performative policies, pandering, and symbolic virtue signaling has forever erased that unified direction. That flavor of politics only works with controlled media, but the 1st Amendment has finally broken the propaganda cartel. Their radical base cannibalizes rising moderates making it impossible for competent leaders to gain traction. This is not a blip. It's a long overdue correction.
#47
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@fauxlaw
I also find it highly ironic that it took yet another Hollywood actor to expose all the meaningless pandering that passes for policy in DC. 
All that pandering now polls at around 20% popularity. Legal protections for gang invaders... demanding biological women (half the country) tolerate biological men wearing wigs in prisons, sports, and personal spaces.... demanding another 200 billion to sustain a meaningless war.... demanding the middle class pay their fair share to the climate gods while basic resources like water can't be found in case of fires...race based rewards over meritocracy...the list is endless.

Their virtue signaling is so extreme, they couldn't even clap for a kid trying to beat cancer....
They’ve become so consumed by their petty ideological games that they can’t even muster basic humanity.
The whole far-left platform reeks of elitist contempt for ordinary people. It won't last, and it shouldn't
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#48
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
who suffered from moments of confusion..
Again, to someone insulated in a bubble, this statement is not misleading.
To someone who lives in reality. Unlike you, my world doesn't revolve around what people believe.

You poor soul, you really think political sentiment is permanent.

It is when the Democrats...
It isn't, full stop. The democrats lost 2024 because the American people were convinced that the party in power was to blame for their perceived ills. That opportunity to blame the democrats for everything will not be available to republicans in 2026 or 2028. Now republicans actually have to win it, and so far they're failing badly.

This is what happens in a country where 80% of the population is fighting amongst each other for 7% of the wealth. The constant theme of every election, regardless of whose in power is change. That's what people want, and it will continue until someone actually delivers for working people. What Trump is doing right now is the opposite of that.

This is what happens when you embrace diversity to the extreme, you get a fragmented and unworkable party.
lol right, can't have all those black and brown people with jobs. Cause that's the real issue in America.

A party that prioritizes ideological purity and identity-based factionalism over a unifying vision for the future makes it impossible to maintain a cohesive coalition.
Agreed.
#49
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@Double_R
 The democrats lost 2024 because the American people were convinced that the party in power was to blame for their perceived ills. 
Lol, wrong. If you guys ran anyone other than Kamala, we would not be discussing the permanent dearth of your party. And you would not have to deflect from it.
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#50
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
If you guys ran anyone other than Kamala, we would not be discussing the permanent dearth of your party
You go on at length about how Democratic policies destroyed their voter base and then argue that Kamala is singlehandedly responsible. You need to make up your mind.
#51
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@Greyparrot
 It won't last, and it shouldn't
Correct 100%
I believe in cooler heads. For one thing, they do not explode.
#52
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@Double_R
Selecting Kamala destroyed their voter base. The Democrats won't be allowed to run anyone normal after that because shoehorning Kamala solidified the resolve of the radical purity testers to keep (relatively)normal people like Gavin and Slotkin from ever being able to save the party.  And the radical purity testers won't allow the (relatively)normal voter base to return either.

Tell me again, who is in charge? AOC? It's not Schumer.
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#53
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Selecting Kamala destroyed their voter base. The Democrats won't be allowed to run anyone normal after that because shoehorning Kamala solidified the resolve of the radical purity testers to keep (relatively)normal people like Gavin and Slotkin from ever being able to save the party.  And the radical purity testers won't allow the (relatively)normal voter base to return either.
You just sound like a whacked out conspiracy theorist. Who exactly are these "radical purity testers" that won't "allow" normal people to run? I think you're talking about... you know... voters. As in the people who are supposed to decide these things, says democracy.

Tell me again, who is in charge? AOC? It's not Schumer.
Who exactly is supposed to be?
#54
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@Double_R
 I think you're talking about... you know... voters. As in the people who are supposed to decide these things, says democracy.
#55
FLRW
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Not all Trump voters are stupid people but all stupid people voted for Trump

#56
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@FLRW
Trump was right. There's not a single thing he could do while president that could possibly make these Democrats happy. Even the most unifying statements or positive accomplishments are met with silence or protest. The Democrat party now operates on pure political theatrics.

Only smart people are able to leave the Democrat cult.
#57
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@Greyparrot

So you think rich people should get tax cuts? That's not how Eisenhower thought.
#58
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@FLRW
I think you should tax people until they burn the palace down around you.