Debate Mafia DP2

Author: AustinL0926
Mafia

Posts

Hot
Total: 137
Topic's author
#1
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,707
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
Welcome to Debate Mafia! Please read the OP carefully.

Setup and Rules:


Match Order:

Today's matches are:

1. Wylted - Lunatic
2. Earth - Savant
3. Whiteflame - Owen
4. Casey - Bullish

Match Mechanics:

The matches will commence in the order listed in the OP. During the match, all living players may talk freely. Votes must be submitted privately - no in-thread votes will be counted. A match is decided by whoever has more votes - they will unavoidably die (and may still vote, but not talk).

Each match will last 24 hours. Until the deadline, you may change your vote as many times as you wish. If you do not anticipate changing your vote, you can cast a FINAL vote, which cannot be changed. If enough players submit a FINAL vote to guarantee the result of the match, it will end early.

Living Players:

1. Owen
2. Wylted
3. Casey
4. Vader
5. Savant
6. Lunatic
7. Earth
8. Whiteflame
9. Bullish

Deadline:

Match 1 will end 24 hours from the first player post in the thread.
Topic's author
#2
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,707
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@Vader
@Savant
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
@Owen_T
Daystart
Topic's author
#3
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,707
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@Earth
@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Bullish
debate or smth idk im not a debater
#4
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,329
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
I was unsure about Wylted throughout DP1 until right at the end when he suddenly began urging everyone to vote for Pie instead. Something about the way he was posting so urgently, it felt so genuine to me. The way people talk when they're flailing really says a lot. I also liked his claim, it makes a lot of sense to me that a role like that would exist in this game. I know I could be wrong, but I have a gutread, and I always trust it when it comes to Wylted. The problem is, if I'm right about him, then I feel like Wylted v Luna is town v town, and I really don't want either of them to die. Assuming they're telling the truth, they both have good roles.

Also worth noting that unless there are four scum and Pie was town, at least one of these matchups is town v town guaranteed.
#5
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,458
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
Ok. Last night I swapped Earth and Wylted together. I also was allowed to pick who goes first so I also picked them to be fair. I hinted I would do this in DP1
#6
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,458
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
This is where I claimed what I was doing: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12434-debate-mafia-dp1?page=8&post_number=219

I also did it in the previous post too
#7
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Results please, Owen first preferably, even though he's not on the docket today.
#8
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
I'm thinking Owen and Pie have to be scum together. There's no other justification for the course of action last DP. 

If Pie is town then he knows he's town and will try to let owen die. If he's scum and Owen is town then obviously he'd let owen die. So the only possibility here is they are both scum, and Pie sacrificed himself because Owen has a stronger scum role.
#9
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@Vader
It's a bad move to still do that given all the claims that happened. You put 2 of the 3 most pro-town roles (the other being sensor) on the same ticket.
#10
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,458
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Bullish
Earth was more town read than Savant. I said Wylted and Luna to start the game and near the end. I could've maybe chosen better but the Dp ended right after and I just saw and hit the action. Either way I don't think any of them are fully town confirmable. 
#11
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 7,107
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
I am thinking Owen is scum as well. Pie is town though I used my ability on him.
#12
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Also just for the record I was legit busy last night, or else I would have got on and voted owen. 
#13
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 7,107
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Bullish
I don't care if 75% of town revealed their roles at some point we have to take a stand and say that mass claims are bad. I only like mass claims when I am a vanilla. 

Plus we still have pie's vote and we 100% know he is town. Somebody said they can reveal where votes went so the use of that ability also gives us pie's reads.
#14
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Ok mod-psych - would Austin put scum v scum in one of these setups? DP1 OP said the brackets are "seeded", not random.
#15
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@AustinL0926
if someone has a vote-based role does it still function when they are dead?
#16
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,367
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
How tf do we explain Pie's action then? Any chance he was scum godfather, and he saw your role and was like "my role literally only works when I'm dead" so he suicided himself?
#17
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Vader
Ok. Last night I swapped Earth and Wylted together. I also was allowed to pick who goes first so I also picked them to be fair. I hinted I would do this in DP1


What does this mean specifically?
#18
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Bullish
I'm thinking Owen and Pie have to be scum together. There's no other justification for the course of action last DP. 

If Pie is town then he knows he's town and will try to let owen die. If he's scum and Owen is town then obviously he'd let owen die. So the only possibility here is they are both scum, and Pie sacrificed himself because Owen has a stronger scum role.

Isn't pie dead? What exactly happened? I am confused.
#19
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
Plus we still have pie's vote and we 100% know he is town
How?! What am I missing!?
#20
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
And why did pie vote himself? What did voting even do
Topic's author
#21
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,707
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@Bullish
if someone has a vote-based role does it still function when they are dead?
Per OP, questions should be sent via PM

(Also for this specific question, I can't answer that)

#22
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,458
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Lunatic
The order I was given was


1. Wylted - Savant
2. WF - Owen
3. Earth - Luna
4. Casey - Bullish

I sweapped Earth and Wylted to create a matchup of Luna Wylted, as I said I was going to do DP1. I then make it so the first person to be debated on was Wylted and Luna. 
#23
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 7,107
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Bullish
How tf do we explain Pie's action then? Any chance he was scum godfather, and he saw your role and was like "my role literally only works when I'm dead" so he suicided himself?
I guess you have a point here
#24
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 7,107
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Vader
The first one voted on should be Owen vs literally anybody else bro

#25
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 7,107
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Lunatic
How?! What am I missing!?
My understanding and admittedly I am confused is that we still have to vote after we die
#26
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,553
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
Alright, this got posted late.

So far at least, it looks like Pie got effectively copped innocent by WyIted, which suggests that Owen was scum since they had a choice between the two. I guess there’s a chance they would have wanted to avoid killing the Tree Stump so that he could continue talking in the next DP or just chose Pie because he was potentially more dangerous, but Owen was already in my scum pile, so this just furthers that perception. But that’s for a later match.

As for the choice this match, I was townreading both WyIted and Luna coming out of the last DP and that hasn’t changed. Luna is more townread for me given his crazy role (I do want to hear how you used it), so for the time being, he’s my choice to survive, though I think we lose out either way. I figured it was a given that some town vs. town (and perhaps even scum vs. scum) matches would come up, this just looks like the first.
#27
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@whiteflame
Is it confirmed that Wylted copped pie innocent? Because if he was scum he could have chosen himself to make us think he was innocent and cast doubt on those who pushed him.

Also I used my magnitude last night on earth, he should be a triple voter this day phase. If not he is scum.
#28
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,553
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
Is it confirmed that Wylted copped pie innocent? Because if he was scum he could have chosen himself to make us think he was innocent and cast doubt on those who pushed him.
Nothing is confirmed, so that is possible.

Also I used my magnitude last night on earth, he should be a triple voter this day phase. If not he is scum.
I asked this last DP, but I'll check in again: would your role have said it failed if Earth was scum? Or would only he have it confirmed?
#29
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,458
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@WyIted
I'm failing to see how that would've made a difference
#30
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,560
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@whiteflame
I asked this last DP, but I'll check in again: would your role have said it failed if Earth was scum? Or would only he have it confirmed?
His vote will simply count as one instead of three if he is mafia.