Trump says US will take Gaza & turn it into the rivera of the ME

Trump says US will take Gaza & turn it into the rivera of the ME, put the Palestinians in beautiful places...etc.

- All that is sensational nonsense. He is not going to take Canada, nor Panama, nor Gaza. Never going to happen; ESPECIALLY Gaza. If Israel was winning, it would've never agreed to a ceasefire. They were pushing the ceasefire deal proposed in April hoping the Gazans would surrender come winter. That didn't happen. The fighting just got more intense. What does he actually mean? Maybe it’s just one of his bluffs & fantasies. Maybe it’s a negotiation tactic to pressure Arab countries & the resistance to concede more. Maybe it’s a result of his entourage, since virtually all his family members & all his colleagues are either Jews or married to Jews. & Israel want Gaza! Maybe it’s the imminent implementation of the Zionist project of taking Jerusalem, destroying the Aqsa mosque & building the Temple as prophesied! Or maybe it’s a real imperial urgency the American ruling dynasty sees as the only way to get rid of a serious threat to Israel & their hegemony. 

- The whole discussion rests entirely on power dynamics. There will be no talk about Israel existence itself if this was transposed into China for instance, for respective power dynamics makes it unattainable. The current power dynamics dictate that the colonial pocket of Israel is a political reality, for it was successfully inserted in the region by relevant Colonial powers after the fall of the Ottoman Empire & the subsequent occupation of the region, directly or indirectly, manifesting in the current regimes surrounding Israel (Jordan, Egypt, Gulf states…). 

- What are the facts? Israel deployed 529k personnel to invade Gaza, mobilizing thousands of tanks & armored vehicles & aircrafts, dropping +100k tons of explosives on the strip (which is 200x the intensity of the Vietnam War bombing), with constant supply of armament from the US & Europe worth +$20B (the Iran attack defense alone cost $1B), spending +$70B on this war – to fight a 15k-35k resistance force for 15 months to a standstill! The result? More Hamas fighters now than were before Oct 7 – 20% less tunnels -allegedly- & almost 6k Israeli soldiers dead & 15k wounded (it's likely much higher than that in reality, including the mercenaries & unregistered fighters) – & a prisoner exchange Hamas was seeking since Oct 7.

- Taking Gaza necessarily requires military action, i.e. boots on the ground, since Palestinians are clearly not going anywhere. US direct involvement will do very little to tip the scale of the conflict. The only thing it may cause is more civilian deaths, more -or smaller- rubble, & more Hamas recruits. Although we haven't seen attempts by Gazans to cross the borders south towards Egypt despite all the heavy bombing & fatal lifestyle they suffered, some might be willing to leave if offered a better life with housing & amenities elsewhere. But 'some' is not what Trump & Netanyahu want; they want ALL Palestinians to leave. Even if half leaves & half stays, nothing really fundamentally changes. Even if we assume Palestinians in Gaza are eager to leave, no country would be as motivated to welcome them ALL; for the simple fact that no country wants a potential army of hundreds of thousands on their soil.

- This isn't even guerrilla warfare. It's something entirely new. Gazans under siege for decades came to two realizations early: that the supremacy of US/Israel military is air power, & that the political solution (to achieve a Palestinian state) is a lie –Israel intends to keep them under siege until it can expel them. Acquiring advanced air defense systems being unattainable, they opted to dig tunnels as deep as 200ft underground capable of surviving a nuclear strike; 500 miles of them. Some of these are large enough to fit vehicles & large spaces. They also had to make their own weapons under siege. They built factories underground & used remaining explosives & materials from the occasional Israeli bombings to make RPGs, rockets with ranges up to 150 miles, rifles, drones, ammunitions...etc.

- Whatever side of the isle you're on, these people are very serious about resisting the US/Israeli occupation & gaining their freedom. You don't spend decades digging tunnels deep underground just to be told "leave". Now, Hamas & the other resistance factions have access to +10k tons of unexploded bombs, hundreds of captured tanks & drones, & a very large pool of potential recruits. There are 2 million people living in Gaza, 70% are under 18, & almost all of them lost everything they had –house, relatives, comfort, amenities, health...etc. These people have nothing more to lose. It is not farfetched to believe that the resistance factions might 10x their forces after this. Which means 10x the fighting force, 10x the weapons & 10x the tunnels. The resistance is growing stronger not weaker. 

- Arabia, Egypt & Jordan –the object of intended displacement– are not heedless to the fact that US/Israel seek to expand their territory –as always intended– while pushing the conflict occupation vs resistance further away from their borders. Moving the Palestinians, even those willing, to "nicer" places does not magically abrogate their fight to take back their land after 100 years of resistance. In fact, albeit unrealistic, this turn of events might pose an even greater danger to the Israeli colonial project. 2 million Palestinians who just lost their land on top of suffering & losing everything else, who successfully fought Israel with the full backing of the West, might just be as successful in taking over the country they were moved into, say Egypt or Jordan. Unlike in Israel, a resistance force launching a coup against the Egyptian regime, for instance, will not face much resistance from the people, if not the opposite.

- The deep distress among Israelis regarding this situation is understandable, their state may actually be in danger. This might lead to the infamous Samson option. But if the Israelis use nuclear, it is certain that all regional powers will rush to acquire their own as fast as possible. Namely, Turkey, Saudi, & Iran, potentially Egypt, Iraq & Syria as well. The former already have nuclear capabilities for energy use (Saudi in the near future). That outcome alone might actually be more distressing not just to Israel but to the entire West than just having Palestinians in Gaza. Not the least, Israelis themselves, especially those with dual citizenship, will pack their bags & go back to their countries once they learn their neighbors have nuclear weapons. Israel is already experiencing persistent negative migration since Oct 7.

- All that been said, here are some possible outcomes:

• Trump/Israel wishful secret plan: use all available means short of genocide to expel the vast majority of Palestinians from Gaza & nuke the remaining ones who refuse to yield. Means like: incentives such as community housing, work, school… elsewhere, contracting siege to force them out, encroaching settlements replacing Palestinians homes, military confiscation, monetary brides or green cards, kidnapping, bombing, constant harrasment…etc. The value here is that it’s easier to deal with a couple hundred thousands than with 2 million, & that it’s possible to deal with the backlash of one but not the other. All in all, this is a delusional plan. All this has already been long implemented in the West Bank & it yielded abysmal results with Palestinians unwilling to leave. It will surely yield null results among Gazans.

• Long term annihilation by subversion. It is shocking to me how UNRWA is portrayed in the US (& the West) as some great humanitarian organization, when its reputation induces repulsion in the Arab world. That until it came out recently that USAID was funding it to promote Feminism & Wokeness & inoculate (sterilize) Palestinians in Gaza. To eventually drive Gazans to depravity & eventually extinction, or at least surrender. The probability of this outcome is virtually null. Not for other than the fact that both the Palestinian resistance & Israel itself are against it, since they figure out that Wokness would just make Palestinians even greater victims than they already are.

• Two state solution: recognize the Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital & the Palestinians right of return. This might actually be the most realistic positive outcome for Israel. Having a stable home, hope, prospects, freedom will make the Palestinians less prone to more conflict, & might even weaken their resolve to take back their land. Then, they would have much to lose than just keep peace, even just temporary, even with the Israelis who took their homes killed their families or expelled their ancestors. The undesirable consequence of this outcome might be the fact that Israel as a state will seek to integrate itself in the region like the Crusader pockets done in the past, & thus ceases to exist as a colonial project serving Western hegemony as a destabilizing agent in the region. 

• One state solution: merging occupation territories & Palestenian territories into one nation under the state. The only conceivable form of this solution is something like Bosnia, a confederation, or a one-country two-state solution. This is only possible with a fully integrated Israel in the region completely abandoning its Zionist project. Otherwise only achieved by Israel being conquered. In effect, leaning from past developments & following the current trajectory Palestinian resistance is poised to possess in the not-far future hundreds of thousands of fighters with respectively equivalent arsenal of antitank RPGs & rifles & so forth. Plus, much more advanced drone & rocket capabilities, possibly even air-defense systems..Also, likely thousands of miles of underground tunnels spanning all occupied territories, including Eilat (nuclear depot) & Tel Aviv. An Oct 7 scenario, where instead of capturing the Gaza belt region for a few days, capturing the entirety of Israel forever.


C/C whatever the short-term outcome of this situation is, it is impossible for Israel to survive in the long term. If this was in Albania, the outcome might be dubious. Palestine happens to be the abode of the Holy Land for Muslims & a province of the Arab nation. You would have to get rid of all Arabs & then all Muslims to eliminate any claim or cause to that land. An impossible feat in itself. Whatever the case, Israel is surrounded by half a billion people forever hostile to its colonial presence in the region, who are historically, religiously & politically attached to the land. The Crusaders occupied –back & forth– Jerusalem for 170 years! But were eventually expelled. The moment the power scale equalizes or shifts in favor of Muslims/Arabs, the existence of the polity that is Israel will become transient. My take, Jews who wish to stay in the Holy Land should learn from History, abandon their Zionist project & actually integrate with the locals & become one with them. But I know this is too much to ask. They might be right, maybe God will allow them to build the temple…

For sure, Trump is full of Bullshit.

The sad fact is that no one wants the Palestinians, not even their Arab brothers.

I guess they see them as just as big a problem as the Israelis do.

Empathetic rhetoric is just hollow words.

The solution as ever is just to keep supplying them with weaponry and spread anti-Jewish propaganda.

Reality is, that originally everyone was essentially the same.

But just look at what several thousand years of social and ideological factionalism as come to.

A civilised and intellectual species hey Yas...Don't make me laugh.

That was a good read. Right now Israel has high birth rates, but they are declining over time. The plan of Israel was always to claim more and more territory. They bombed over 60% of Palestine in less than a year to make its population move out.

This is the mind of inhuman terrorists but humans feel empathy. They literally could nuke Gaza and nothing would be done in response. 

They don't glass Gaza because they are humans with empathy. The same reason civilized nations would never fly planes into civilian buildings, kidnap and rape little boys who are civilians and throw faggots off of a roof. 

We disagree with their lifestyle as well, we don't murder them because we are humans with empathy not soulless monster

Really? And the mass bombing of civilians is what exactly?

Hamas uses civilians as shields, you don't exactly let them get away with being terrorists just because they are hiding in civilian areas. If you reward that behavior than in the long term more civilians are at risk. However most those people support Hamas and their pedophilia and terrorism so it's not really a big loss. Only the children are innocent though with the use of child soldiers I am unsure of that. Child soldiers is also another thing humans wouldn't do

All militaries hide in civilian areas. You cannot protect an area without being there.

So you say you start with empathy and then you end up with conclusion that every Palestinian deserves to be killed. I guess empathy means something different in your country.

So good to know that Hamas literally owned Israel in this and is not actually a pile of rubble. 

Bro this is literally what ethical people do. It is so obvious who is winning by looking at which country is a pile of dust. 

It was honestly retarded to just randomly attack random civilians on October 7th. I don't even think they had a strategy. I think they were honestly just stupid enough to fall for Irans promises to help them when Irans real goals were to just be annoying even at the expense of Palestinian and Israeli lives. 

The whole October 7th thing kind of proves that these people are in a satanic death cult. You would never see good religions like Christianity command their people to go rape random civilians. The American military literally just established military dominance not target civilians at random. To rape especially the pedophile stuff. 

Now you can say individual soldiers may have done some fucked up shit but not as a matter of policy. 

Did you know that Gaza could be as rich as western nations if they didn't take their aid money to buy weapons and make tunnels? They could have spent it on schools or developing industries. 

Instead they are like. "Let's randomly attack civilians and rape them, I am sure that if we hold hostages it will mean that we are rewarded for this behavior and not punished" 

Bro it's dumb . In the Muslim mind you think not genociding your people is an admission of defeat, which I think is an admission that you guys would literally genocide your enemies if you ever established military dominance. 

No the Germans did not win WW2 just because they weren't wiped from existence LOL.

It's not even true. Every western country tries to spare lives. It isn't from some sense of inferiority either. There is a reason why Muslim morals have them living in literal shitholes  if they adopted western morality they could literally just live in peace and prosperity instead of fucking donkeys and living in slums. At least build up your societies before starting a war. Anyone who is not retarded against military superiority before attacking other countries but I think Muslims as a whole just aren't smart. Perhaps it's the inbreeding. 

Seriously a lot of sex with cousins guy and kids LoL

WTF kind of superstitious cope is this?

Do Jews also murder black cats because they are bad luck? You guys will believe anything

Yeah the only way to secure myself against you guys is border security and deportations at home and bombings abroad. Lets be honest it's only a matter of time before the religion of peace starts doing more serious terror attacks in America. 

You guys are so off balance. I don't even like Jews but am tempted to defend them due to how retarded your views are. Have you ever tried to disprove your own arguments to see how dumb they are or is your only focus on defending things like

"See that pile of rubble? See that modern developed country? The pile of rubble won"

I don't see how you can simultaneously declare victory while also crying to Christian countries for aid due to how you are being genocided.

You make very good points. The original plan of Israel was to completely destroy Hamas, but now Israel finds itself unable to do even that, which is why Israel agreed to a ceasefire and now will be forced to release all Palestinians it kept in prisons for years.

True.

You wouldn't speak of Egypt, Turkey, or Saudi Arabia only existing because of "current power dynamics". These are countries in their own right, they have every right to exist, and this right has no expiration date. Israel is the exact same way - a permanent majority-Jewish state, in the same way that there are dozens of permanent majority-Arab states.

The Jews resettled Palestine in large numbers during the late 19th and early 20th century. So what? The Arabs themselves conquered and colonized Palestine, and that's the only reason you consider it an Arab land today. From my point of view, both acts of colonization are ancient history; that one piece of ancient history just happens to be more recent than the other (and the expulsion of the Jews from Israel is the most ancient piece of history of all) is irrelevant to the discussion.

What's relevant is that both Jews and Arabs are in the Middle East today. The question is how to make sure that both groups have a self-governing space large enough to accommodate their basic needs. At present, that question has been answered satisfactorily, with the exception of the Palestinian question. And the Palestinians are, of course, just Arabs.

How do they know when they haven't seriously tried a political solution? Actually, scratch that, they did -- there were two successful Oslo Accords, then they went to the Camp David Accords demanding the moon and the stars, and when that one summit broke down they immediately went on a Jew-killing frenzy, extinguishing all prospects of further diplomatic breakthroughs for a generation. Meanwhile, of course, the people behind the violence of the Second Intifada are either still running the West Bank or at the very least have been afforded safe haven inside of it, and the Palestinian Authority is still paying people to indiscriminately murder Jews.

As for Gaza, in 2005 Israel expelled all Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip (whereas millions of Arab Muslims are allowed to live in Israel proper), and the Gazans immediately proceeded to elect Hamas. At literally any point in the last 20 years the Gazans could've tried removing Hamas and then seeing if the Israelis would sustain the blockade in the face of moderate Gazan leadership, but the Gazans never did.

If the West Bankers and Gazans actually put moderates in charge and stop letting their territory be used as a launchpad for terrorism, they could try negotiating for reasonable terms. Not some mythical, non-existent right-of-return (Israeli Jews who parents/grandparents were expelled from Arab countries have no such right of return), nor any concessions of land in Israel proper, but Israeli non-interference in the affairs of these two countries and the removal of settlers from the West Bank. Then they could negotiate with other Arab states for right of travel.

The PLO tried to take over Jordan in 1970. They failed.

If a vast horde of crazy genocidal Palestinians were to succeed in overrunning Israel, this outcome would be little different from being glassed with nuclear weapons, in which case the Israelis might as well take their enemies down with them.

I agree with you so far as concerns the manpower, if only because a large number of Gazans are too dumb to stop and consider that Hamas might be principally responsible for their suffering. But not for the weapons or smuggling. If Hamas can ill afford to furnish its new recruits with anything more than a basic sidearm, then this army won't be of much use.

With Iran militarily weakened and economically devastated, they are unable to fund the Hamas giving Israel the opportunity to further weaken and destroy them.

- Rubble doesn't fight back... You can't win against rubble now can you!

Now you are just speaking a lot of truth  so there is nothing for me to add.

Muslims don’t control India. Muslims are a minority controlled by Indians. In fact highly skilled Indian immigrants are all over muslim countries developing their economies.

True. Also, if Israel holds onto the Philadelphi Corridor then it'll be difficult for Hamas to resupply itself through smuggling.

This is the way.

Since Israel cannot occupy Gaza it should hand it over to Trump.

I guess he will be building the Gaza Trump Tower.

Since the 1940s, two state solutions have been offered. Every time, the Palestinian Arabs have refused them; the Arab League even boycotted meetings over the first offer of a two state solution. When Israel finally says, “That’s it. No more offers of a two state solution!” Hamas responds, “Well then, we will bake your babies and take hostages until you offer a two state solution!”

It's so odd. I honestly think we shouldn't treat them with kid gloves at all. 

They play the same game all sociopaths play and funny enough I learned it from Charles Manson.

They walk up and try to act bad ass and then when you hit them they play victim. 

Anyone who does the aggressive act followed by the victim act on repeat is sociopathic and should be dealt with accordingly. 

The same shit whether it is ghetto people, Hamas or gypsy's. 

Notice it's not every minority group either, you never see Mexicans or Africans or Asians pulling this shit, just the most subhuman sociopaths on the planet

Based!

It's weird that Israel is more tolerant of radical Muslims than the neighboring Muslim tribes....

What I mean is, Israel is willing to live next to a reservation, but Jordon refuses to take in all the Muslim radicals... 

Carve out a ghetto in Jordan? Nimby.