Trump kills NYC congestion pricing

Author: Double_R

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@Double_R
We're not talking about legal technicalities, we're talking about basic principals.

You are kind of side stepping another SGC principle in that less federal funding always equates to a smaller federal government. SGC's were very upset when a lower court forced taxpayers to continue funding USAID 2 billion dollars after it was exposed where all the funds were actually going. They would be equally upset if a lower district court were to order Trump to waste their taxes supporting a policy charging poor people to use the "royal" highways.
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You are kind of side stepping another SGC principle in that less federal funding always equates to a smaller federal government. SGC's were very upset when a lower court forced taxpayers to continue funding USAID 2 billion dollars after it was exposed where all the funds were actually going. They would be equally upset if a lower district court were to order Trump to waste their taxes supporting a policy charging poor people to use the "royal" highways.


Can Trump actually kill it?

Congestion pricing was approved under the Federal Highway Administration’s Value Pricing Pilot Program, which allows transportation agencies to implement tolling programs with the goal of decreasing congestion. The federal government is arguing that the city’s congestion-pricing program should not have qualified for approval under the VPPP because it doesn’t feature a toll-free option from drivers wanting to travel in that zone. Duffy’s letter also argues that the tolling program is primarily intended to raise revenue for the MTA rather than to decrease congestion, which he claims puts it at odds with the goals of the federal program.

But legal experts appear skeptical that the Trump administration has the authority to roll back the program after it was approved by the previous administration. Robert Glicksman, a law professor at George Washington University Law School, told the New York Times, “If the facts on the ground have not changed, then you have an extra high burden of justifying a reversal of position. They can’t just say: ‘Sorry. We changed our mind.’ They have to explain why.”

cristo71
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@Double_R
NY is a donor state so it doesn't need the federal government to subsidize anything, just let NY keep its own money and let them handle their own problems. That's what small federal government means.
Now it sounds like you are properly channeling the SGC mindset.

If federal subsidies are involved then it's all good.
“All good” might be an overstatement. More like it is the reality of the situation.

This is, once again, a local solution to a local problem. If you believe in small government it is not the job of the president of the United States to "save" residents of a city from the governing solutions of their local elected leaders.
I will just copy/paste what I have already written earlier:

“The Biden Administration was the first to be involved when it approved congestion tolling as you pointed out. This constitutes federal involvement in a city matter, but again, it’s because of the federal subsidies involved. To my knowledge, conservatives nationwide didn’t complain about the Biden Administration’s involvement for this reason. This should cover the Biden Administration’s involvement both in regards to P1 and P2. No violation of state sovereignty, in other words.”

SGCs didn’t cry foul then, but you believe they should cry foul now?

A few actual SGCs have chimed in on this in this thread. What is your feedback on their views?
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@Shila
Can Trump actually kill it?

Congestion pricing was approved under the Federal Highway Administration’s Value Pricing Pilot Program, which allows transportation agencies to implement tolling programs with the goal of decreasing congestion. The federal government is arguing that the city’s congestion-pricing program should not have qualified for approval under the VPPP because it doesn’t feature a toll-free option from drivers wanting to travel in that zone. Duffy’s letter also argues that the tolling program is primarily intended to raise revenue for the MTA rather than to decrease congestion, which he claims puts it at odds with the goals of the federal program.

But legal experts appear skeptical that the Trump administration has the authority to roll back the program after it was approved by the previous administration. Robert Glicksman, a law professor at George Washington University Law School, told the New York Times, “If the facts on the ground have not changed, then you have an extra high burden of justifying a reversal of position. They can’t just say: ‘Sorry. We changed our mind.’ They have to explain why.”
Thanks for your substantive and informative post. The law professor’s legal opinion here:

“If the facts on the ground have not changed, then you have an extra high burden of justifying a reversal of position.”
… sounds eerily familiar. Oh, yes— way back in my post #40:

“To be fair, I will say that there is probably a bigger legal burden to uphold with disapproval than simple approval. That will be for the courts to decide. ”


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@cristo71
“To be fair, I will say that there is probably a bigger legal burden to uphold with disapproval than simple approval. That will be for the courts to decide. ”
Everything Trump touches goes to the courts, even the women he touches.
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@Shila
Yes, but what do legal experts know? What really matters is what people opining well outside their field of expertise think about matters of interstate commerce, federal subsidies, and governmental procedure and protocol.
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@cristo71
Yes, but what do legal experts know? What really matters is what people opining well outside their field of expertise think about matters of interstate commerce, federal subsidies, and governmental procedure and protocol.
The people voted to put a convicted criminal Trump in the White House for a second term.
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@Greyparrot
You are kind of side stepping another SGC principle in that less federal funding always equates to a smaller federal government.
You clearly didn't read the post you are quoting. I talked about that at length. Read it and try again.

SGC's were very upset when a lower court forced taxpayers to continue funding USAID 2 billion dollars after it was exposed where all the funds were actually going.
This is just further demonstration of the central point of this thread. If you believe in the principal of SGC then you wouldn't need to have been lied to about where the money was going to suddenly care. If you only care afterwards then the principal has nothing to do with the size of government, that's just the excuse you give when you don't like what the government is doing and would rather argue some vague principal than your actual position.

Double_R
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@cristo71
If federal subsidies are involved then it's all good.
“All good” might be an overstatement. More like it is the reality of the situation.
Yes, and that should bother you if you're a SGC. But what you're doing here is using it to make your point which is a basic failure of logic. Two wrongs don't make a right, so if you believe in small government you can't use the wrong of the federal government involving itself in the first place to justify the federal government involving itself afterward.

This is, once again, a local solution to a local problem. If you believe in small government it is not the job of the president of the United States to "save" residents of a city from the governing solutions of their local elected leaders.
I will just copy/paste what I have already written earlier:
Why? I've already responded to all of that and you have nothing to say in response except to repeat your original point which has been addressed multiple times already.

SGCs didn’t cry foul then, but you believe they should cry foul now?
Yet again, approving and denying a state program are two very different things. You are not inserting yourself into the process when you approve. You are asserting yourself inn the process when you deny. The latter deserves now scrutiny for obvious reasons.

I've already explained this, let me know when you're ready to engage in the conversation instead of hissy repeating the same thing.

A few actual SGCs have chimed in on this in this thread. What is your feedback on their views?
See my responses to them.
cristo71
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@Double_R
Yes, and that should bother you if you're a SGC. But what you're doing here is using it to make your point which is a basic failure of logic. Two wrongs don't make a right, so if you believe in small government you can't use the wrong of the federal government involving itself in the first place to justify the federal government involving itself afterward.
Ah, here is the goalpost creep of yours I referred to earlier and why I insisted on a syllogistic argument from you. Your syllogism made no reference to this. Perhaps you should have a complete “do over” with your attempted argument which revolves around federal subsidies being a threat to state sovereignty.

Why? I've already responded to all of that and you have nothing to say in response except to repeat your original point which has been addressed multiple times already.
The good news for you is: you “made me look!” The bad news is: no, you didn’t previously address my requoted text. You never requoted and directly responded to that portion. You are engaging in thread historical revisionism. It’s not a good look.

Yet again, approving and denying a state program are two very different things. You are not inserting yourself into the process when you approve. You are asserting yourself inn the process when you deny. The latter deserves now scrutiny for obvious reasons.
Requiring approval is requiring involvement or intervention. As I have acknowledged multiple times already, there is a greater legal burden to uphold with a denial than approval, but either way federal intervention is occurring. “You are not inserting yourself in the process when you approve”? That is laughably false.

You have responded to just about all the SGC posts except for post 76. That said, none of them seem all that bothered over both your gripe and the state sovereignty issue underlying your gripe. Perhaps I should take the hint from that fact and take my leave…