Gunplay Mafia DP2

Author: Mharman
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Gunplay Mafia

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#121
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@AustinL0926
I mean you could kill the claimed tracker, but supposing someone else comes up that you want to kill, then the tracker becomes a big inconvenience for you if you claim something other than JK or town role blocker.
#122
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Sorry, watcher.
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#123
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Vote Count
Austin (2/4) - Wylted, Savant
Wylted (1/4) - Austin
#124
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Here on my break again. I don't like 2x Jailkeeper as a claim at all. Personally speaking, I don't find arguments of the sort "I as a scum player would play better than this" to be convincing most of the time. I also don't have a strong scumread on anyone else, though I'm still pretty null on Luna. I'm okay with an Austin lynch, but I don't want to rush through this day, so I will wait to vote for him for now, at least until I've gotten home from work. 
#125
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Nah im backtracking austin again, still think he's town. 
#126
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vtl wylted

I guess im happy to be the minority on this one, whiteflame is my second scum read. 
Pretty sure yall will just lynch austin, maybe I can convince you on to these two next dp though. 
#127
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@Savant
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
If you're confident I'm scum then please explain how lynching me tomorrow instead of today, after I clear another person through jailkeep, harms town win chances.

This is mostly to Wylted.

Casey, you're probs town, but also please consider.

Same goes to Savant.

This is literally the best post d1-gamestate I have seen in 10 games or so, and if town loses it, it's not going to be because apparently we're all lazy enough to get the game over with and lynch one of the few roles capable of hardclearing someone at night.

As I said earlier: once I out my result, I will not fight my lynch at all tomorrow.

If I'm scum, I am literally gamethrowing right now.


#128
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@Savant
I mean you could kill the claimed tracker, but supposing someone else comes up that you want to kill, then the tracker becomes a big inconvenience for you if you claim something other than JK or town role blocker.
Or I just fakeclaim something else and NK you if I'm scum?

Like the whole premise here is that I'm an extremely honest scum player who claims their true role type and true night actions for... some reason I suppose.


#129
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@AustinL0926
If you're town, we're lynching you plus two other people. I'd rather lynch those other two people later after we get another night to use our roles, know how they vote on you, have another DP of information, etc. Clearing a single other player doesn't do much imo, because scum can kill them as well as role block. They could RB you and kill me or any number of things. Then we used one of our lynches this day phase without much to go off of.
#130
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@AustinL0926
Or I just fakeclaim something else and NK you if I'm scum?
Night killing me is obvious, but you might want to plan for a contingency where someone else has a more powerful role, or goes really aggressively against you, etc. This isn't the only or even main reason why I find your claim suspicious, but it's something you might have considered. In hindsight of course you messed up if you are scum, but you didn't know we would react to your claim this way.
#131
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@Savant
Let's play out this hypothetical where you're scum: Redirector could get you caught by the tracker. You wouldn't be able to confirm the rest, putting you under further suspicion. With jail keeper, you can at least "role confirm" and hope people go for more "unconfirmed" targets, and you can play the WIFOM game. So while JK runs the risk of being scummy, it's also the only claim that has a chance of getting you town read due to how it somewhat role confirms you and your apparent transparency up front. And you need to take that risk in hopes of getting out of PoE, because you're part of a narrow PoE and the only scum left.

Also if the argument for your innocence is that you wouldn't do anything obvious as scum, then this role claim does nothing to improve your odds of being town. You could have already made the argument that "as scum, I'd never be obvious about defending Greyparrot." But you did defend him, which would be an obvious move for scum. Before you claimed, it was clear that if you were scum you were willing to take big risks.
I don't really want to defend myself, I'd rather focus on solving and get a result off at night and then set up town for a mechanical win in F3.

But ok.

I could have gotten townread with literally any other claim I listed there. The benefit of claiming a confirmable role there is close to zero, and it's something I'm clearly aware of given that in my past scum games, I have usually claimed a role that conveniently can't be confirmed and still gotten away for it.

Like ok, I get you want the game to be easy, but look at your own reasoning. It's circular, I can be scum because I can be scum. If you start with the assumption I'm town, then to no one's surprise, then I am town (because I wouldn't do that as scum, since I'm town). It's fundamentally meaningless.

Town overwhelmingly loses winning games because it's tempting to just try and go for the easy solution and get it over with, and when that easy solution flips town, then what do you do?

There's zero reason to not let me clear someone tonight if you think I'm scum anyway.

Like I genuinely don't see a downside.

I'm just baffled by how everyone's rushing to lynch me before I get the literal equivalent of a 1-shot cop check while also offering myself up to be lynched directly next DP.
#132
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@Savant
If you're town, we're lynching you plus two other people. I'd rather lynch those other two people later after we get another night to use our roles, know how they vote on you, have another DP of information, etc. Clearing a single other player doesn't do much imo, because scum can kill them as well as role block. They could RB you and kill me or any number of things. Then we used one of our lynches this day phase without much to go off of.
I voted Wylted to get momentum on the wagon.  I can unvote later if town will just bloody listen to my plan that mechanically confirms someone tonight at zero cost, considering you're going to flip me sooner or later anyway.

If he flips scum, great. If he flips town, my action is guaranteed to succeed because of the factional perk, so I can't be roleblocked.

You're saying that we're wasting a lynch, GUESS WHAT you're going to waste a lynch anyway on mislynching me. 

There is zero difference between lynching someone today and lynching me tomorrow, and the opposite.

Literally zero.

And I already explained the benefit of clearing a player. Scum can only kill one person per night, even if they kill you tonight that leaves a confirmed townie in F5 to lead the way, while otherwise there's none.

Not to mention we literally have another mechanical clear because we know there's a town commuter, meaning that scum literally can't kill people fast enough assuming I clear someone tonight who's not the commuter.
#133
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I'm LITERALLY not even playing to survive.

I'VE ALREADY SAID that I'm willing to be lynched tomorrow.

If I'm scum there's zero difference.

If I'm town, then in the "best-case" scenario where you lynch me, you're wasting a lynch anyway. The only thing that changes is the order of the lynches, and the fact that I get the equivalent of a cop check off tonight.

This is basic mechanics, y'all are lynching a one-shot strengthened cop, and I'm going to bang my head against a wall at the fact that town is very possibly going to lose this not because scum played well, but because y'all are impatient.
#134
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@AustinL0926
I mean, anyone we lynch could also be a town player that uses their role tonight. And targeting someone else this DP means we reveal more about our roles to scum, who have a role blocker.
#135
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If you're town, we're lynching you plus two other people. 
Yes. Believe it or not, the order of lynches doesn't matter, except when it does.

I'd rather lynch those other two people later after we get another night to use our roles, know how they vote on you, have another DP of information, etc.  
What information is there? This entire DP has gone in circles with everyone and their mother wanting me dead while I try to explain basic mechanical play. Not to mention that it's non-unique - y'all are going to have a night regardless, you already know who's voting where, you already know what's happening this DP. And speaking of night-actions, why not allow me to get a cop check off, especially if I'm scum, I've ALREADY said I'm willing to be lynched tomorrow?

Clearing a single other player doesn't do much imo, because scum can kill them as well as role block. They could RB you and kill me or any number of things. Then we used one of our lynches this day phase without much to go off of.
When you lynch me today and I flip town, then you'll have zero info tomorrow either.

Scum can't kill my clear because a. I'm not going to claim who I'm targeting until tmrw, and b. they can only kill one person at a time, if I clear someone tonight and another person claims commuter, then that's a mechanical lock as long as one more person is behaviorally clear (because that would allow my mislynch and then POE the scum down in final 3).

They can't roleblock me, as I already said.

I literally don't understand why you want me dead so badly when I have:

-The equivalent of a cop check
-I.e. a kill going off confirms my target as town, and a no-kill confirms a guilty
-While also being strengthened

And while I also have ZERO path to endgame because I've already said I'm fine with my lynch tomorrow after I out my result. 

Again, if I'm scum, I'm gamethrowing. Keep that in mind.

#136
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@Savant
I mean, anyone we lynch could also be a town player that uses their role tonight. And targeting someone else this DP means we reveal more about our roles to scum, who have a role blocker.
Look you can't have it both ways.

If I'm scum, it doesn't matter how much info is leaked today, I'm getting lynched tomorrow.

If I'm town, there is NO ROLE that would somehow bring more utility than a 1-shot cop check that can't be roleblocked.

If you see a problem with my logic. Go for it. Otherwise, I'm not responsible for this town loss.
#137
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Austins dropping some solid points. I don't see him going through all this effort just to be okay with being lynched tomorrow. Sure its wifom, but I just don;t buy him behaviorally as town. And the more I think of it, it really doesn't make sense for him to claim jailkeeper after the doctor flipped unless he was trying to die, which he clearly isn't. I think mharman put this role in hoping it would be a mislynch for balance purposes. IDK I just don't see austin as scum. 


#138
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@AustinL0926
Maybe help me lynch wylted then
#139
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@Lunatic
I'm currently voting him lol.

Sorry, I wish I could put more effort into this, I'm just kinda tired walling back and forth to settle the basic mechanical point of "maybe if I'm not scum then letting me get 1 -shot strengthened cop check off is good play"
#140
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
WyIted is in my PoE. I mean I see merit to what Austin is saying, but I can see pros and cons to either approach as I already stated. Depending on what the rest of the town decides, I'm fine going after either, but I'm staying off the wagon. That said, I'm likely going to be tonight's kill.
#141
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@WyIted
You know, what the heck. WyIted, let's get a full claim from you.

VTL WyIted
#142
AustinL0926
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Yeah ok if you saw me post all that and decide that there's zero downside to lynching someone who can mechanically clear or guilty someone tonight, while also not being roleblocked, then I have nothing else to say. If town loses I'm taking uhh..... 23% of the blame. Sounds about right. 

I'm clearly playing to scum agenda by offering to be lynched tomorrow with zero resistance whatsoever. Because that's what scum does.

Ok I'm going to take a break lol.
#143
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unvote 

I still want Wylted, but if he flips town, remember that I have to be off-wagon so that I can't be roleblocked.

If he's scum then it's a moot point lol.
#144
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Imagine if scum's benefit from not being on the wagon is ending the game day 2 when there's one scum member left. I mean, I don't think so though.
#145
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@Lunatic
Maybe help me lynch wylted then
Do not delay the game for another DP off this nonsense.
#146
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@WyIted
We'll lynch Austin tmrw. Just claim.
#147
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@AustinL0926
If you're confident I'm scum then please explain how lynching me tomorrow instead of today, after I clear another person through jailkeep, harms town win chances.
You could have a recruiting role for all we know. What is your retarded plan anyway? Let me guess forego the NK to fake confirm yourself.

I respect your fight but it is absolutely retarded to delay this. It literally has zero benefit.
#148
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@AustinL0926
This is basic mechanics, y'all are lynching a one-shot strengthened cop, and I'm going to bang my head against a wall at the fact that town is very possibly going to lose this not because scum played well, but because y'all are impatient.
We legit only need to lynch you, than if you are town lynch lunatic and we win. There is zero chance of a loss
#149
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@Vader
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
You could have a recruiting role for all we know.
Fair point. This could be the scum benefit. Sorry Austin, it's just not worth the risk.

VTL Austin
#150
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@Savant
We'll lynch Austin tmrw. Just claim.
No because he was the obvious lynch today but you are a retard so you talked yourself off of it. He could literally have a recruiting role or some shit and in that case a delay makes sense.

My assumption is that if you are stupid enough to delay the lynch now, he will come up with some retarded story that makes it make sense to delay the obvious lynch again.