Inheritance Cycle Mafia DP3

Author: ILikePie5

Posts

Read-only
Total: 160
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Mharman
I think we at least need a claim from ADOL and Austin before we go any further. I don’t blame you or anyone else for finding my claim sus, I just don’t know how you would think I’m actually the Voodoo Lady and I would fake being RB’d twice in a row rather than trying to kill my target with it. If you want to believe I as scum would seek out such an obscure scum role, modify it, and present it to you as though it were a town role, then I’m kind of flattered honestly. More work than I’ve ever done as scum for a fake claim.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@whiteflame
I think we at least need a claim from ADOL and Austin before we go any further. I don’t blame you or anyone else for finding my claim sus, I just don’t know how you would think I’m actually the Voodoo Lady and I would fake being RB’d twice in a row rather than trying to kill my target with it. If you want to believe I as scum would seek out such an obscure scum role, modify it, and present it to you as though it were a town role, then I’m kind of flattered honestly. More work than I’ve ever done as scum for a fake claim.
hmmmmmm. This is a good point.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
Yeah I'm willing to wait for more
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
God I keep thinking I'm gonna hard-solve the game in an instant... I need to slow down
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Ill be posting more in a couple hours when I get to work
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
@AustinL0926
I’ve got thoughts on who I think it is, but I’d like those claims first.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@whiteflame
Hold on a sec, can’t you just you just claim your actual role, spin it as town, and pretend to be roleblocked for towncred when you weren’t rb’d at all? Who’s to say you didn’t actually use it on Lunatic, or someone else?

I can see you doing this or just digging up the role to avoid being CC’d if you used up your role inquiries and didn’t like the options.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
But then why wouldn’t he find something else that’s obscure and not voodoo lady… hm. I haven’t liked Whoteflame’s behavior at any point this game, but the choice is damn stupid for any fake claim

That doesn’t make it stupid for a spin though, not entirely. It’d be risky but he can go for it
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Mharman
Hold on a sec, can’t you just you just claim your actual role, spin it as town, and pretend to be roleblocked for towncred when you weren’t rb’d at all? Who’s to say you didn’t actually use it on Lunatic, or someone else?
So you're thinking that I used my role on someone as scum, it failed to kill them because it's a 50-50 chance, then I just gave up on trying this DP and gave away the role claiming that it's town instead and I was RB'd, which also destroys any chance of my being able to use it this DP and get another coin flip? I guess that's possible, but it sounds extremely suboptimal to just nix the possibility of a day kill this DP as scum and potentially win the game right here with a mislynch.

I can see you doing this or just digging up the role to avoid being CC’d if you used up your role inquiries and didn’t like the options.
This seems more plausible, but if you're right that I did this, then I would have had time to find this obscure role, notice that it is most commonly used as a scum variant that kills its target, and claimed it anyway despite having asked Pie about two roles and characters that are in the game and having a total of two unclaimed people left. It would be pretty careless to draw the obvious heat I knew I was going to get by claiming this role just to avoid a rapidly dwindling possibility of being CC'd when I'd have role and character information in hand. I've made bad moves before as scum, but this might top them.

Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@whiteflame
So you're thinking that I used my role on someone as scum, it failed to kill them because it's a 50-50 chance, then I just gave up on trying this DP and gave away the role claiming that it's town instead and I was RB'd, which also destroys any chance of my being able to use it this DP and get another coin flip?
No? I’m saying there’s a possibility you used it and claimed to be roleblocked. That doesn’t destroy your chances of it working.

It would be pretty careless to draw the obvious heat I knew I was going to get by claiming this role just to avoid a rapidly dwindling possibility of being CC'd when I'd have role and character information in hand. I've made bad moves before as scum, but this might top them.
This is your best argument, and it’s on my mind. But the thing is, this can be something scum does when they really need to get some claim. I guess my biggest hang up here is the context of everything else I’ve been scumreading you for. I just don’t think I should suddenly clear you just because you may have a bit of a point in your favor.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Mharman
No? I’m saying there’s a possibility you used it and claimed to be roleblocked. That doesn’t destroy your chances of it working.
No, but claiming it does. Stating outright that I have this role and that it is beneficial for me to get someone to say a specific word tells people who sus me that my doing so is dangerous. Telling you all that I've been RB'd makes any such efforts on my part in this DP sus to anyone who didn't sus me already. And, lastly, if someone dies during the DP, I'm the obvious cause of their death because I've outed my role. At absolute best, if I somehow convinced someone to say a very specific word without being called out for it or noticed, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best.

This is your best argument, and it’s on my mind. But the thing is, this can be something scum does when they really need to get some claim. I guess my biggest hang up here is the context of everything else I’ve been scumreading you for. I just don’t think I should suddenly clear you just because you may have a bit of a point in your favor.
If you're behaviorally sussing me, then so be it. I've said my peace about why I behaved the way that I have these last two DPs, and your read of those actions isn't going to change if I revisit them.

I just don't love these arguments for why I'd claim this role. If you believe I'd do this as scum because you already saw me as scummy and you think this is just trying to throw you off, then I really have no response. That would be a massive Hail Mary for me, but I guess it's the best argument I've seen you give so far for why I'd claim this.

Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@whiteflame
                                      Character                                      Role                                                         NP1                                                     NP2
Cerulean                         Elva                                    Oracle (weak)                                               N/A                                                     N/A
Luna                              Eragon                                     Arsonist                                             Primed WyIted                                N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman                 Nasuada                                  Bulletproof                                                   N/A                                                     N/A
Whiteflame                Angela                                 Voodoo Lady                                   Picked Luna (failed)                    Picked Luna (failed)
Austin                             ???                                               ???

Dead
Casey                           Murtagh                             Prideful Townie
WyIted                       Galbatorix                               2X Prober                                  Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth                              Roran                                   Hammerer                                                    


Thankyou. Didn't Austin claim Arya?
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
I completely forgot about that, but no, that was ADOL:

whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
                                      Character                                      Role                                                         NP1                                                     NP2
Cerulean                         Elva                                    Oracle (weak)                                               N/A                                                     N/A
Luna                              Eragon                                     Arsonist                                             Primed WyIted                                N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman                 Nasuada                                  Bulletproof                                                   N/A                                                     N/A
Whiteflame                Angela                                 Voodoo Lady                                   Picked Luna (failed)                    Picked Luna (failed)
Austin                             ???                                               ???
ADOL                              Arya                                             ???

Dead
Casey                           Murtagh                             Prideful Townie
WyIted                       Galbatorix                               2X Prober                                  Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth                              Roran                                   Hammerer              

Alright, I'm exhausted due to getting somewhere on the order of 3 hours of sleep last night. Calling it here. Would prefer to fill in those gaps before we start any lynch wagons.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 5,183
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
Felt bad not including Cerulean's targets.

                                      Character                                      Role                                                         NP1                                                     NP2
Cerulean                         Elva                                    Oracle (weak)                                        Picked ADOL                                 Picked Mhar
Luna                              Eragon                                     Arsonist                                             Primed WyIted                                N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman                 Nasuada                                  Bulletproof                                                   N/A                                                     N/A
Whiteflame                Angela                                 Voodoo Lady                                   Picked Luna (failed)                    Picked Luna (failed)
Austin                             ???                                               ???
ADOL                              Arya                                             ???

Dead
Casey                           Murtagh                             Prideful Townie
WyIted                       Galbatorix                               2X Prober                                  Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth                              Roran                                   Hammerer              
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@whiteflame
And, lastly, if someone dies during the DP, I'm the obvious cause of their death because I've outed my role. 
Noted
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@whiteflame
That point above is pretty convincing. I still don’t like your behavior from earlier, but I can see that this claim would be pretty stupid from you if you’re scum. I guess I’ll go reread past DPs and see if I went wrong anywhere on you… should do that with everyone tbh
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Mharman
I am a bulletproof. As I mentioned last DP, my character is Nasuada. The justification is that Nasuada, a strong-willed individual, survived torture on multiple occasions- specifically, torture while captured by Galbatorix and the Trial of Long Knives
Some more thoughts on this claim, the trial of long knives was voluntary torture Nasuada endured to control the leader of the Fadawan tribes who were asking for more power and leadership positions and when she refused they challenged her to the trial of long knives to see who can endure more cuts and was fit to be leader. She didn't have to participate in this trial, but did so voluntarily with information from Elva that she would survive. Galbatorix tortures her pretty bad with the Burrow Grubs that are like centipedes that dig beneath her skin. 

So if pie is writing her character as a fan of Nasuada, the role makes sense, but technically Arya and Murtagh are just as entitled to that role as both were tortured by Galbatorix as well, for longer arguably. Arya was tortured for literally months by Durza, Nasuada was only tortured for like a week tops. However the reader doesn't really get to see the torture to Arya or Murtagh, where as you get to see the burrow grub torture and the hot iron torture nasuada goes through, so there is incentive for pie to focus on her torture over the other two's. And Nasuada is a pretty badasss character, if he wrote her as bulletproof it has to be as a big fan of the character. 
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
Ok.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@whiteflame
It is exactly as I stated: Voodoo Lady.

As for the justification, I believe this is as complete as I can get:

It says I have an uncanny ability to read into people and make predictions, that I tend to do it teasingly. I occupy a space somewhere in between the ordinary and magic sides of the world. My magic isn't anything to write home about, but I understand hidden aspects of the natural world very deeply and I'm involved in herbalism.
The only problem I have with this is her magic being "nothing to write home about". She is literally a witch with extraordinary powers, and is one of the only ones that can resist Elva's mental abilities, as well as she had the ability to essentially stop time killing a large group of Helgrind worshippers in a second. She's also the only person whose as old if not older than Galbatorix on the planet, without the use of Eldanari (dragon hearts). She easily outclassed both Arya and Eragon in mental battle training exercises. To say her magic isn't anything to write home about means that I'd have to buy that either pie or whiteflame didn't do a ton of research on this character.

Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
That’s interesting I guess. What do you think are the odds Whiteflame went for such a claim? Because he just made a very good argument to me about why he wouldn’t go for that claim if he’s scum.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Another wierd thing is that Angela is not the Oracle, and Elva is, as it is widely theorized that Angela is the "Oracle that lived in the hall of the soothsayer" two and a half thousands years ago, Galbatorix mentions to Nasuada when torturing her. Angela is referred to as a seer in the third book. 
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
Also, if you need any more reason to believe my claim, I will note that Nasuada being told she was gonna survive is fitting. Not sure if that’s the point you were already making when you said that, but I’m noting it here.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
I’m gonna ask Pie about something
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Mharman
That’s interesting I guess. What do you think are the odds Whiteflame went for such a claim? Because he just made a very good argument to me about why he wouldn’t go for that claim if he’s scum.
Chances are pie just mis-understands or mis remembers certain things, or is selectively forgetting minor details of the book that don't seem important, which could make sense with some of the inconsistencies with the other characters. But the thing is with my own character and all the characters in the graveyard I feel like their roles fit the characters VERY accurately, so I'd have to buy that he just hit gold on some of them while missing the mark on others, and it convienently happens to be roles that aren't flipped yet that don't make as much sense. 

As far as if Whiteflame was willing to WIFOM that role, yes I do believe him capable of it. I am not sure if pie makes a role like that though. After austin claims we can decide whose role justification out of the three of him, cerulean, whiteflame, and your own makes less sense. So far i'd say yours makes more sense than some of the others though, and I was initially more convinced by ceruleans Elva claim, but the more I think about it the more I think Oracle fits Angela better. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Mharman
Also, if you need any more reason to believe my claim, I will note that Nasuada being told she was gonna survive is fitting. Not sure if that’s the point you were already making when you said that, but I’m noting it here.
But Elva had lied to her about it if I remember correctly, Nasuada basically changed what was supposed to happen by being pure unadulterated badass. 
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
Given that both Whiteflame and Cerulean’s claimed roles can be used to confirm a townie, and that Wylted’s role already can do that too, I don’t think both of their claims can be real. I consider both roles to be pretty weak, too, while Wylted’s is strong imo. I think there’s only room to pair one such weak-ish role with Wylted’s role. Plus, Earth’s role also exists.
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 5,803
3
6
10
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
3
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
But Elva had lied to her about it if I remember correctly, Nasuada basically changed what was supposed to happen by being pure unadulterated badass. 

Ah. Well I’m no theme expert.

If you’re wondering what the question I asked Pie was, I asked if my bulletproof would protect me from non-lynch day kills, like from your role for example. I haven’t gotten an answer yet.

You ignite primed targets in the day, correct? That’s how I remember Supa’s behaved when had it in a game a few years ago.

Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Mharman
You ignite primed targets in the day, correct? That’s how I remember Supa’s behaved when had it in a game a few years ago.
No i both prime and ignite in the night. I have unlimited primes, only one ignite.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,181
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Mharman
Given that both Whiteflame and Cerulean’s claimed roles can be used to confirm a townie, and that Wylted’s role already can do that too, I don’t think both of their claims can be real. I consider both roles to be pretty weak, too, while Wylted’s is strong imo. I think there’s only room to pair one such weak-ish role with Wylted’s role. Plus, Earth’s role also exists.
That's a good point. Something to consider after getting the rest of the claims.