Inheritance Cycle Mafia DP2

Author: ILikePie5

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Cerulean
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@Lunatic
There was a point in time where he could have just waited for Whiteflame to hammer me, if I recall correctly. But he specifically unvoted when it was 3/5 to make it 2/5.

Granted, there is a possible Mafia incentive in that a No Lynch leaves me as a potential lynch option down the line. So it's not particularly clearing.

Lunatic
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@Mharman
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
In literally every interaction with Eragon, its clear that Murtagh doesn't want to be in service to Galbatorix and is there against his will. His character is kind of tragic for this, and the Varden imprison him almost immediately in the first book when they reach Farthen Dur. 
Lunatic
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@Mharman
i guess Durza is on the table if it’s good v evil yeah
Durza technically was forced to work for galbatorix too, but I'd say that character was evil regardless of being forced to or not. You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him. Durza is just bad in general.
Cerulean
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You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him.
Classic.
Lunatic
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@Cerulean
There was a point in time where he could have just waited for Whiteflame to hammer me, if I recall correctly. But he specifically unvoted when it was 3/5 to make it 2/5.

Granted, there is a possible Mafia incentive in that a No Lynch leaves me as a potential lynch option down the line. So it's not particularly clearing.

I think this is why earth is trying to tie him to you, IE if he's scum you must be too. I agree there could be multiple reasons for him not hammering you though as scum, so I am not going to go down that WIFOM rabbit hole based on that alone. 
ADreamOfLiberty
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The only reason Lunatic would conspire with Wylted on a lie is if they were both scum (and knew it), and in that case Lunatic pushing for Wylted to be lynched would be a pointless strategy that could backfire.

Therefore I consider it to be confirmed that Wylted is a vanillaizer because Lunatic said he was vanillaized.

I consider it high probability that Wylted was telling the truth about being galby since he could have picked many other characters to impersonate that might be vanillaizers and each would have been a risk of tipping of the real character.


Therefore the only interpretations are that:

Wylted is scum and Lunatic is town,

OR

Wylted and Lunatic are both town and this is friendly fire

WyIted
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I have information and there is more to my role so I might as well give the more information considering that I should be in most people's scum pile considering the Casey flip etc.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Lunatic is town. The part of my role I was holding back was the fact that besides vanillaizing I also cop the player ai vanillaized. If I cop scum they keep their ability. Lunatic was in a lot of peoples scum pile so I copped him and since he was innocent he also got vanillaized. I wanted the vanillaized person to mention they were vanillaized before I stated who I targeted in case of a redirect at play.
Mharman
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He never indicated that, and note I was THE ONLY one scumreading him, so the only reason for him to do this was for omgus, which he wasn't doing publicly. So he was afraid of what I could be and knew I would proably target him.
You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.

Unless he targeted someone else and was redirected, at which point he’s town anyways for the scum team targeting him.

If you knew the books, you would know this is the perfect role for Eragon actually, brisngr was the first word of power he learned in the books, and also grants him an OP sword towards the end of the series as he discovers is part of his swords true name.
Ok but from a game design standpoint, I don’t see it. It’s pretty unusual and when Ive seen it, it was scum sided. Seems op for town in a role mad game too, when there’s so many other roes as well.

Tell ya what. It is a ballsy fake claim if you’re going for it, but I’m gonna need a damn good reason for it to be town here.

He never stated scum reading me once, where as my vote was on him for the latter half of the day phase. Why are you buddying wylted so hard?
He literally claimed with no pressure in a move that I can only interpret as him learning from last game. I’ve been townreading him for a while because of it. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way about him either. I’m going to repeat my question from last DP: Is there anything behavioral on Wylted that you were basing your thoughts on him on?

Mharman
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@Lunatic
Ping
WyIted
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I don't know who is scum right now but if Cerulean is scum than my bad for not hammering guys. I wish Casey did not have my name in the PM otherwise I would have held off on claiming but it is what it is.

You can also see that after Cerulean claimed a light investigation role I was harder on him. Now you can make sense of that behavior and see it is consistent with my fuller claim.
WyIted
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@Lunatic
Post 39

You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.
How would mharman know I scum read you?

vtl mharman
Lunatic
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You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.

Unless he targeted someone else and was redirected, at which point he’s town anyways for the scum team targeting him.

You are only considering his motivations as town. Why? As scum he alos had major reason to target me would he not?

Ok but from a game design standpoint, I don’t see it. It’s pretty unusual and when Ive seen it, it was scum sided. Seems op for town in a role mad game too, when there’s so many other roes as well.

Tell ya what. It is a ballsy fake claim if you’re going for it, but I’m gonna need a damn good reason for it to be town here.
Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that?
ILikePie5
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Official Vote Count:

Wylted (1/5) - Lunatic
Mharman (1/5) - Wylted
WyIted
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I like the analysis and effort from you. This is actually pretty good
ADreamOfLiberty
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@WyIted
The part of my role I was holding back was the fact that besides vanillaizing I also cop the player ai vanillaized. If I cop scum they keep their ability. Lunatic was in a lot of peoples scum pile so I copped him and since he was innocent he also got vanillaized. I wanted the vanillaized person to mention they were vanillaized before I stated who I targeted in case of a redirect at play.
Paste the full description of your role as given by pie if that's the case please.

WyIted
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We are not allowed to but I will look again and paraphrase
ADreamOfLiberty
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@ILikePie5
@WyIted
We are not allowed to but I will look again and paraphrase
That true? People have been revealing characters and roles, it would be strange not to allow the exact wording.

I want to know what the justification for galbatorix having this specific form of vanillaization was.
WyIted
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It's not far off from what I said.

He mentioned that I can control the minds and probe the innermost thoughts of my enemies. This allows me to know their deepest darkest secrets . So I know their affiliation. I also vanillaized them. Going to be honest he didn't give me the best justification I think it's mostly that I see in their heads and I think he added the vanillaize part for balance reasons and just tried his best to make the justification work
WyIted
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The problem with giving the exact wording is it can allow what's called PM analysis which is frowned upon and also why we don't discuss PM timestamps either or allow chat GPT to paraphrase the PMs for us anymore
Cerulean
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That true? People have been revealing characters and roles, it would be strange not to allow the exact wording.

I'm currently in a state of believing WyIted, to be honest. It makes sense to have one useful investigative and one much weaker one, and I still find WyIted's behavior extremely difficult to believe as being Mafia. I find that it resembles my own wavering on a lynch when it just "feels off" at an EOD.

...And if I believe WyIted, it makes sense to believe Lunatic as Town.

And I don't think ADOL's is a thought process a newbie Mafia would be able to fake. Some of these are questions that would typically end up in scum chat.

And I still don't really think Earth's role + character combo are something Mafia would go for in a fake claim. There are much more likely things that are less likely to get an accidental "oops, maybe we should policy this just in case" vote.

Which only leaves me with Mharman, Austin, and WF.
WyIted
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@Cerulean
Let's lynch mharman. He was talking as if he knew for a fact I am town and I am the only person who should know that.
ILikePie5
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That true? People have been revealing characters and roles, it would be strange not to allow the exact wording.
You cannot copy paste your exact PM. You may reveal character and role. But everything else must be paraphrased
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Cerulean
Obviously this is my first game, I just don't understand the origin of that rule. What abuse could come about by copy pasting a role? The danger is in giving too much information but if you've already decided to be transparent...

Right now I am inclined to think that this modified vanillaizer town, but villain themed character, is too complicated to believe.

The simpler theory is that Wylted is a vanilla vanillizer (pun intended) scum who made up this thing about affecting scum and town differently to explain why he would vanillize anyone without doubling down on calling them scum.

Given that lynching nobody must inevitably lead to town defeat I guess I'll vote to lynch Wylted.
whiteflame
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...alright, that got moving fast. I'll catch up.
Mharman
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@Lunatic
In literally every interaction with Eragon, its clear that Murtagh doesn't want to be in service to Galbatorix and is there against his will. His character is kind of tragic for this, and the Varden imprison him almost immediately in the first book when they reach Farthen Dur. 

Durza technically was forced to work for galbatorix too, but I'd say that character was evil regardless of being forced to or not. You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him. Durza is just bad in general.

Hm. I guess that makes sense.
Mharman
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I’m gonna see if I can read and double check what Lunatic is saying here later
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Mharman
I confirm Lunatic on theme. Shades are always evil, they are formed from a failed attempt at sorcery, evil spirits possess the sorcerer.

Durza shows he's evil many times, but it's not like there was any other option. Nobody with any knowledge of magic in the whole series ever questions whether a shade is bad.

So Durza is basically born evil.
Galbatorix choose to be evil, obviously with triggering circumstances of losing his partner, yet still a choice since Brom went through the same thing.
Murtagh is not evil, he's a tragedy.

Lunatic
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going to be driving to work, wont be able to post for another hour or so
Mharman
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@Lunatic
You are only considering his motivations as town. Why? As scum he alos had major reason to target me would he not?
I mean he would have a reason if he felt threatened by your thoughts on him yesterday. I’m considering his motivation as town first because I’ve been behaviorally townreading him since he claimed with no pressure. Granted, his role isn’t complete negative utility to me (so there’s a chance he really didn’t have a reason so SoP claim), but I can see why he did considering last game.

Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that?
???