How to trick atheists and agnostics.

Author: Savant

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Savant
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Agnostic atheists often say that their position makes no affirmative claims, hence they don't have any burden of proof. But that's where you trap them. "I didn't make an affirmative claim" is itself an affirmative claim. It's a claim about something you didn't do. You might say this is petty and unfair. But "that's petty and unfair" is also an affirmative claim. "I don't believe x" is also an affirmative claim. Maybe you do believe x and you're lying. At this point, maybe you're tired of having a pedantic conversation about the burden of proof. But "I'm tired of having a pedantic conversation" is also an affirmative claim.

If all else fails, just ask them their name. "My name is Bob" is an affirmative claim, and now you're both in the same boat. The way to avoid getting trapped yourself is to phrase everything in the form of a question. Asking "why do you beat your wife?" or "how can you prove x?" isn't making an affirmative claim, so it doesn't come with a burden of proof. Just ask "how do you know?" to every statement they make, and pretty soon they'll have made a hundred-plus affirmative claims while you only have the one.

Unfortunately, I made a bunch of affirmative claims in this post, so it's too late for me. But maybe someone else can make use of this information.
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@Savant
Semantics is as semantics does, is an affirmative claim, is an affirmative claim.
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@Savant
This is funny but as somebody who was an atheist like this, it was limited to the God claim and most other claims but I did know it was still necessary to have some axiom. 

Of course there was some cognitive dissonance because I also hated the ideal of axiomatic truths.  Whatever

Now I think it is just as fair to assume God is true as it is that God is not true. Either is a fair axiomatic conclusion,.and you should try you world view with both axioms, once you have obtained enough philosophical knowledge 
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@Savant
Thats funny.

You can always annoy people by asking them  to prove their claims.

Most people tend to make claims they cant prove, because they are used to casual conversations where unproven claims arent challenged.

If they make more claims, just ask proof for those too.
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@Savant
There is a more advanced version of what I mentioned, and it is usually done by asking proof for premise.

For example, if someone says "claim A" as a proof for "claim B", you ask "Can you prove that claim A proves claim B?".

It would go something like:

"I am going to work."

"Can you prove that you are going to work?"

"Of course. I go to earn money".

"Can you prove that you are going to work to earn money?".

Its very important to stick to questions to avoid making a claim yourself which you would have to prove.

Anyone can practice this with AI too.

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@Savant

How to trick atheists and agnostics. [................................................]Unfortunately, I made a bunch of affirmative claims in this post, so it's too late for me. But maybe someone else can make use of this information.


ok. Now where's the "trick"? 
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@Stephen
Close, but "ok" is an affirmative claim. Sort of.
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@Savant

How to trick atheists and agnostics. [................................................]Unfortunately, I made a bunch of affirmative claims in this post, so it's too late for me. But maybe someone else can make use of this information.
ok. Now where's the "trick"? 


Close, but "ok" is an affirmative claim. Sort of.

The -ok-  was  an acknowledgement that I had read your statement, not that I necessarily agreed with it. So, where is the "trick"?




Savant
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@Stephen
The -ok-  was  an acknowledgement that I had read your statement, not that I necessarily agreed with it.
Well, that's definitely an affirmative claim.

The trick is in the part of my quote you cut out. Like within the first few sentences of my post, I explain that you can trick atheists and agnostics into making affirmative claims. For example:

"I don't make affirmative claims."
"That's petty and unfair."
"My name is Bob."
"The -ok-  was  an acknowledgement that I had read your statement, not that I necessarily agreed with it."
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@Savant
Agnostic atheists often say that their position makes no affirmative claims, hence they don't have any burden of proof. But that's where you trap them. "I didn't make an affirmative claim" is itself an affirmative claim. It's a claim about something you didn't do. You might say this is petty and unfair. But "that's petty and unfair" is also an affirmative claim. "I don't believe x" is also an affirmative claim. Maybe you do believe x and you're lying. At this point, maybe you're tired of having a pedantic conversation about the burden of proof. But "I'm tired of having a pedantic conversation" is also an affirmative claim.

While atheists make an affirmation believing they have sufficient proof, agnostics maintain their doubt because they understand there is no proof that God does exist.
A doubt is not an affirmation.
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@Shila
No, but saying "a doubt is not an affirmation" is an affirmation that a doubt is not affirmation.
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@Savant
How do you define “affirmative claim”?
Shila
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@Savant
No, but saying "a doubt is not an affirmation" is an affirmation that a doubt is not affirmation.

What is the rule of affirmations?
FORM OF AFFIRMATION The witness shall say as follows: I solemnly and sincerely affirm and declare that the evidence I shall give to the Court, touching the matters in question, shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

A doubt is not an affirmation of truth.

Definition of affirmation: a statement or sign that something is true: We welcome the government's affirmation of its intention to act. The reports are an affirmation that the students.

A doubt is not an affirmation of truth.
Savant
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@cristo71
Any statement that can be true or false.
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@Savant
What is the name for the opposite of an affirmative claim, and what would be an example of that type of claim?
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@Savant
Any statement that can be true or false.
But a doubt is not an affirmation of truth.

Doubt definition. a feeling of not being certain about something, especially about how good or true it is. have doubts about I'm having doubts about his ability to do the job.


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@Shila
A doubt isn't an affirmative claim, but the idea is to trick them into saying something beyond just a doubt. Like "My name is x."
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@cristo71
opposite of an affirmative claim
Probably another affirmative claim. Like "It's night" vs "It's daytime."
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@Savant
The trick is in the part of my quote you cut out. Like within the first few sentences of my post, I explain that you can trick atheists and agnostics into making affirmative claims. For example:

"I don't make affirmative claims."
"That's petty and unfair."
"My name is Bob."


Well here is another affirmative claim:  Your thread is absolute shite that shows no trick as claimed and neither does it alter the fact that Christians and the bible make many  claims that cannot be proven although the burden of proof is on he that brings the claim.

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@Savant
So, how is an “affirmative claim” distinct from simply a “claim”? The reason I am asking all this is because I had a different view of what “affirmative claim” meant than what your OP suggests.
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@Savant
Agnostic atheists often say that their position makes no affirmative claims
Eh, I think the idea here is that their position regarding deities makes no claims regarding deities— not that they never make any claims about ANYTHING.

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@cristo71
The moment person says that he is an atheist, he makes the claim which he must prove. Basically, it is impossible to say your position without making a claim which must be proved.

"I am an atheist."

-"Can you prove that you are an atheist?"
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@Savant
It's simpler than that.

The claim that one making an affirmative claim carries the burden of proof, is an affirmative claim.

It is a completely faith-based assertion, there is no evidence that it is true, and no way to prove it.


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@cristo71
Eh, I think the idea here is that their position regarding deities makes no claims regarding deities— not that they never make any claims about ANYTHING.
Well, it wouldn't be a trick if it didn't involve derailing the conversation.
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-"Can you prove that you are an atheist?"
"Yes, I have 5 kids with 3 different women."

Guess who said that?
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@Savant
A doubt isn't an affirmative claim, but the idea is to trick them into saying something beyond just a doubt. Like "My name is x."
That could be a lie and not an affirmation.

Definition of affirmation: a statement or sign that something is true: We welcome the government's affirmation of its intention to act. The reports are an affirmation that the students.
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@Shila
A lie is still an affirmation, just an incorrect one.
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@Stephen
here is another affirmative claim
That's several affirmative claims.
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@Savant
A lie is still an affirmation, just an incorrect one.
Definition of affirmation: a statement or sign that something is true: We welcome the government's affirmation of its intention to act. The reports are an affirmation that the students.

What to avoid words of affirmation?
One key mistake to avoid is being insincere—make sure your words of affirmation are genuine and specific to strengthen trust and connection. Also, steer clear of negative language and manipulative tactics to keep the focus on positive reinforcement

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@Shila
a statement
Statements can be false

make sure your words of affirmation are genuine
This implies that affirmations can be false but advises that they shouldn't be.