Biden reportedly set to pardon his son.

Author: Greyparrot

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#61
Shila
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@Double_R
He doesn't have to lie about it, his supporters have no standards for him. Standards only apply to democrats
Trum0 has broke all norms. He is the first convicted felon to be elected President.
#62
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@Double_R
Again, imagine the headlines if he even showed ambiguity about his intentions.
Like the current headlines? Seems as though he only succeeded in kicking that can down the road. Of course, the difference is that he is a lame duck president now.

But I'm not so sure he was lying about his intentions.
This wouldn’t be the only time.

Standards only apply to democrats.
Standards which demand lies in order to be satisfied are not that admirable.
#63
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
It's OK when the crimes are fake or victimless.
You mean like lying about your drug use on a gun application, or evading taxes that you already paid back?
I don't see why you would assume that I thought these were victimless or fake...

I do think they're victimless so I don't mind Hunter being pardoned for them. I mean especially the tax thing.

However the crimes Hunter hasn't been charged with yet were included in the pardon had victims, the entire American people and probably a lot of people in Ukraine and China too.


It's not OK when the crimes are real with real victims.
Like inciting a mob attack on the US Capitol that resulted in 140 Capitol police officers getting their heads bashed in along with the death of one of the rioters?
Punching back isn't immoral. It takes quite a lot to get me to side with the government when it comes to violence.


Also lying to the public in order to cover up you stealing from the public is not OK.
You mean like running a fake university or stealing from your own charity?
Yes


That's the algorithm I'm using.
Clearly not
Not so clear.


And when Trump pardons people who committed crimes on his own behalf that’s also fine
So what do you make about the time period the pardon for Hunter was for?
What do you make of Trump pardoning people who were convicted for crimes they committed on his own behalf? You forgot to address that.
In general I doubt they committed immoral acts.


it makes perfect sense that he would take the time period republicans zeroed in on off the table.
Uh huh, and the crimes in that time they were zeroing in on would be the crimes of soliciting and facilitating bribery and various other conspiracy charges in service of the man who just pardoned him.


So therefore we don't hold Trump to any standards when assessing his egregious abuses of the pardon power.
So therefore Trump is not a hypocrite and a liar in the way Biden is.


Hunter was prosecuted only because his last name was Biden.
and suddenly you care about prosecutorial motivations, you didn't when it was Trump & friends.


It's when the orders are coming from the top, and we both know neither Joe Biden or Merrick Garland was orchestrating this.
The main reason that's plausible is because Joe Biden and Merrick Garland are probably not the top of the power structure they belong to.

It is entirely implausible that these kangaroo courts and witch trials spontaneously appeared in a temporal cluster before an election as opposed to in some way related to the timing of the supposed crimes and offenses. It is entirely implausible that lawyers who worked at the DOJ left high ranking high paying DC jobs to go to work for Fani Willis just before she went after Trump.

and even if it was a grassroots conspiracy to "get Trump" why the fuck should I care? It's still lawfare. You don't give a shit that no connection has been made between breaching the capitol and Trump besides Trump telling them what's on the line, why should I care if your guy's attacks were centrally planned?



That isn't warfare
I believe the phrase is "don't piss on me and call it rain".

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...


The first thing reason advises is to look at precedent. That is precisely what you people (and you in particular Double R) didn't give a shit about.
Provide one relevant example here
This is after demanding you find a precedent like five times:


I know you have not and will not produce a single precedent that anything DJT said about EJC was defamation.
[Double_R] If I have to explain to you what context means and the role it plays in communicating with other human beings, there's no way I'm about to waste my time citing legal precedent with you.


It is unclear how far Trump & friends will twist and distort the law, how little they will care about precedent; but I won't be weeping tears of blood if they do because...
Because you're an unprincipled hypocrite as this statement here demonstrates.
The principle in play is known as the golden rule.

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#64
Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It is convenient that the exact time that a person would look into the Hunter laptop (finally), it's all nullified with a pen-stroke from the very person implicated. Trump could have issued full retroactive pardons to all his family in 2020 and did not. 

There's clearly a difference here. It's not rubber or glue anymore. It's just glue.
#65
Sidewalker
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@Greyparrot
it's nice to see Biden join Maga
LOL, the best insult you can come up with for Biden is to say "he's one of us".

I agree that it's an insult, but why would you think it is?  

Are you ashamed to be MAGA?
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#66
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@Sidewalker
It's not an insult. It's a celebration.
#67
Shila
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@Greyparrot
It's not an insult. It's a celebration.
Trump won. America should be celebrating. Now he wants to annex Canada.
#68
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@Greyparrot
It's not an insult. It's a celebration.
No, it is a terrible insult.
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#69
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@Sidewalker
It's only an insult to the deep state, which Biden clearly is not a part of.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
#70
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@ADreamOfLiberty
However the crimes Hunter hasn't been charged with yet were included in the pardon had victims, the entire American people and probably a lot of people in Ukraine and China too.
This noting but conspiratorial nonsense. The republicans have been investigating this for 4 years and found nothing. The pardon was because enough is enough, this is the witchhunt you guys have been screaming about for almost a decade now.

Punching back isn't immoral
It is when your punching back against something that was completely fabricated.

In general I doubt they committed immoral acts.
So it isn't immoral to defraud Trump voters?

So therefore we don't hold Trump to any standards when assessing his egregious abuses of the pardon power.
So therefore Trump is not a hypocrite and a liar in the way Biden is.
Correct, because Trump is categorically worse.

In order to be a hypocrite you have to purport to believe in something in the first place. Donald Trump doesn't believe in anything, so he just does and says whatever is convenient for the moment and dodges that criticism altogether.

When people lie, they are normally trying to convince you that whatever they are telling you is the truth. Donald Trump says the stupidest and most ridiculous things that no sane rational halfway educated person would believe them, so what he's really doing is disregarding the concept of truth altogether. That is way way worse.

Hunter was prosecuted only because his last name was Biden.
and suddenly you care about prosecutorial motivations, you didn't when it was Trump & friends.
I've always cared. Have you never read any of my responses?

The main reason that's plausible is because Joe Biden and Merrick Garland are probably not the top of the power structure they belong to.
Ah yes, the ole puppet master conspiracy. Ok bro.

It is entirely implausible that these kangaroo courts and witch trials spontaneously appeared in a temporal cluster before an election
They didn't. Every single one of these investigations/trials had been ongoing for the entire 4 years, some even before that. Not sure you are aware of this, but criminal proceedings takes years, and still they would have all taken place had Trump not fought tooth and nail to delay all of them indefinitely, so spare me your fake timing outrage, Trump largely created that.

and even if it was a grassroots conspiracy to "get Trump" why the fuck should I care? It's still lawfare.
He broke the law. Being prosecuted it what follows. That's not lawfare.

You don't give a shit that no connection has been made between breaching the capitol and Trump besides Trump telling them what's on the line
That's just stupid. The connection is obvious, we've argued it many times, not my fault that you hold Trump to an impossible standard that you would never apply to anyone else.
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#71
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@Double_R
Donald Trump doesn't believe in anything...
Nice steelman. Totally not hyperbole.















/s
#72
Double_R
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@cristo71
Like the current headlines? Seems as though he only succeeded in kicking that can down the road.
If what I suggested was in fact that truth then the only reason it was effectively a can kick is because Trump not only won but has made clear that everything the left warned the country about is accurate. So not exactly a refutation.

Standards only apply to democrats.
Standards which demand lies in order to be satisfied are not that admirable.
I would far rather have someone who pretends to be a 100 on the moral standards scale and turns out to be a 70 than someone who acts like a 10 and turns out to be a 20. 
#73
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Remember that Trump fulfilled H L Mencken's prediction.
#74
Shila
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Remember that Trump fulfilled H L Mencken's prediction.
Trump has proven twice that one cannot be disqualified to be President of America just because he is a moron or even a convicted criminal. Anyone can be president if he gets the votes. The Supreme Court ruled even an insurrectionist cannot be barred from holding the highest office in the land.
#75
cristo71
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@Double_R
If what I suggested was in fact that truth then the only reason it was effectively a can kick is because Trump not only won…
Ah, so if I understand your word salad correctly, Biden having lied in order to beat Trump constituted “a noble lie” in your opinion. Funny thing— it seems that only MSM believed the lie.

So not exactly a refutation.
Oh, of course not. I know as well as anyone here that the totality of your claims stand unrefuted.
#76
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
However the crimes Hunter hasn't been charged with yet were included in the pardon had victims, the entire American people and probably a lot of people in Ukraine and China too.
This noting but conspiratorial nonsense. The republicans have been investigating this for 4 years and found nothing. The pardon was because enough is enough, this is the witchhunt you guys have been screaming about for almost a decade now.

Punching back isn't immoral
It is when your punching back against something that was completely fabricated.

It is entirely implausible that these kangaroo courts and witch trials spontaneously appeared in a temporal cluster before an election
They didn't. Every single one of these investigations/trials had been ongoing for the entire 4 years, some even before that. Not sure you are aware of this, but criminal proceedings takes years, and still they would have all taken place had Trump not fought tooth and nail to delay all of them indefinitely, so spare me your fake timing outrage, Trump largely created that.
Bla bla bla "what you forgot is that I'm right about everything"


and even if it was a grassroots conspiracy to "get Trump" why the fuck should I care? It's still lawfare.
He broke the law. Being prosecuted it what follows. That's not lawfare.
Joe Biden disagrees.

So anyways the part you ignored in favor of meaningless "nuh ugh":

The first thing reason advises is to look at precedent. That is precisely what you people (and you in particular Double R) didn't give a shit about.
Provide one relevant example here
This is after demanding you find a precedent like five times:


I know you have not and will not produce a single precedent that anything DJT said about EJC was defamation.
[Double_R] If I have to explain to you what context means and the role it plays in communicating with other human beings, there's no way I'm about to waste my time citing legal precedent with you.

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#77
Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Just about every position in 2024 for the Democrat's party was full retard far-left nonsense. Some of these blue Mayors were still bleating the radical mantra about how "no person is illegal" until Homan set them straight.
#78
Shila
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@Greyparrot
Just about every position in 2024 for the Democrat's party was full retard far-left nonsense. Some of these blue Mayors were still bleating the radical mantra about how "no person is illegal" until Homan set them straight.
Tom Homan has said he hopes to prioritise the deportation of criminal aliens,
#79
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Bla bla bla "what you forgot is that I'm right about everything"
So no response. Got it.

He broke the law. Being prosecuted it what follows. That's not lawfare.
Joe Biden disagrees.
No, he doesn't. Nothing he said contradicts that.

I'd offer more but if you can't be bothered to type out a thoughtful response I have no obligation to.

So anyways the part you ignored in favor of meaningless "nuh ugh":

The first thing reason advises is to look at precedent. That is precisely what you people (and you in particular Double R) didn't give a shit about.
Provide one relevant example here
This is after demanding you find a precedent like five times:


I know you have not and will not produce a single precedent that anything DJT said about EJC was defamation.
[Double_R] If I have to explain to you what context means and the role it plays in communicating with other human beings, there's no way I'm about to waste my time citing legal precedent with you.
You claimed that I don't give a shit about precedent. A posting of me telling you that I'm not going to bother citing precedent to someone who doesn't understand how basic human communication works doesn't support that claim.
#80
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
He broke the law. Being prosecuted it what follows. That's not lawfare.
Joe Biden disagrees.
No, he doesn't. Nothing he said contradicts that.
I am not interested enough in the game to found out why you think you can claim that.

The excuse:

Here’s the truth: I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice
= lawfare


You claimed that I don't give a shit about precedent. A posting of me telling you that I'm not going to bother citing precedent to someone who doesn't understand how basic human communication works doesn't support that claim.
*writes "doubling down on not giving a shit about precedent" on psychiatric pad*

#81
Shila
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@Double_R
You claimed that I don't give a shit about precedent. A posting of me telling you that I'm not going to bother citing precedent to someone who doesn't understand how basic human communication works doesn't support that claim.
Basic human communication involves clearing misunderstanding and citing precedent often help clear doubts.
#82
Double_R
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@cristo71
Ah, so if I understand your word salad correctly, Biden having lied in order to beat Trump constituted “a noble lie” in your opinion.
I never called or suggested it to be a nobel lie, you made that up. And it wasn't word salad, it was quite simple. Here, let me dumb it down...

One of the most basic rules of politics is that you do not say anything that will cause a needles firestorm.

That's really simple and it's nothing new. That's why for example candidates always say they're campaign is doing just fine and they're not going anywhere... And then "suspend" their campaigns the next day.

Funny thing is, everyone understands this. No one turns around and calls them liars because they wouldn't publicly admit what they knew they were going to do. This is politics 101.

So even assuming the worst, what Joe Biden did by saying he wasn't going to pardon Hunter isn't remarkable at all. Admitting it would have caused a firestorm so Biden followed the same rule everyone follows. It's only when MAGA is looking for any excuse to say that democrats are just as bad as Trump that suddenly basic common sense goes out the window and this becomes the scandal of the decade.
#83
Double_R
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@Shila
Basic human communication involves clearing misunderstanding and citing precedent often help clear doubts.
Go back and read the original exchange.

If someone doesn't understand how you get 4 from adding 2 and 2, you don't waste you're time moving onto algebra.
#84
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Here’s the truth: I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice
= lawfare
They're not the same thing. Lawfare is the intentional use of the justice system as a weapon. A political infection within the process is referring to bias. It's pretty stupid to claim the DOJ is being used as a weapon against him when he's ultimately in charge of it.

*writes "doubling down on not giving a shit about precedent" on psychiatric pad*
So you also suffer from reading comprehension issues. Got it.
#85
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@Double_R
Trying to break your previous gaslighting record huh? Not interested. Maybe when you're a little more sane.
#86
cristo71
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@Double_R
One of the most basic rules of politics is that you do not say anything that will cause a needles firestorm.

That's really simple and it's nothing new. That's why for example candidates always say they're campaign is doing just fine and they're not going anywhere... And then "suspend" their campaigns the next day.

Funny thing is, everyone understands this. No one turns around and calls them liars because they wouldn't publicly admit what they knew they were going to do. This is politics 101.

So even assuming the worst, what Joe Biden did by saying he wasn't going to pardon Hunter isn't remarkable at all. Admitting it would have caused a firestorm so Biden followed the same rule everyone follows.

So… I am back to reiterating this:

“Like the current headlines? Seems as though he only succeeded in kicking that can down the road. Of course, the difference is that he is a lame duck president now.”

Good job on creating a hamster wheel (or merry-go-round) of a discussion…
#87
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@cristo71
It looks like a hamster wheel because you've completely ignored my point.

Kicking the can down the road means you are pushing off the inevitable. My point is that it was not inevitable.

It is a perfectly coherent and plausible explanation that what triggered Biden to do this was the appointment of Kash Patel, signifying that Trump does in fact plan to use the DOJ to go after his political enemies and therefore Biden was unwilling to subject his son to anymore of this nonsense. There is no reason to think that Biden saw this as an inevitable outcome, so you continue to ignore an obvious alternative.
#88
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@Double_R
If you don’t believe Biden would have pardoned his son ANYWAY, you are only fooling yourself…

#89
Shila
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@cristo71
If you don’t believe Biden would have pardoned his son ANYWAY, you are only fooling yourself…
Biden did say several times when asked that he would not pardon his son Hunter Biden. But when he found the case against Hunter turning out to be a sham he reversed his decision and pardoned Hunter.
#90
cristo71
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@Shila
Try this on for size:

“Trump did say several times when asked that he would not pardon his son Donald, Jr. But when he found the case against Donald, Jr. turning out to be a sham he reversed his decision and pardoned Donald, Jr.”