Albums Mafia: Track One (DP1)

Author: Cerulean
Mafia

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#61
whiteflame
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I’m catching up (good to see things moving). I’ll say for now that I’m a little more reticent about treating analysis of the OP as a town tell - I know I’ve done it as scum to get some early towncred - though I can see other reasons to townread some of those doing it.

Still, counter to that, strongest townread atm is Austin. Regardless of the broader mechanics involved (and Austin has a point about what they could be), scum have relatively easy fake claims to make given the lack of a theme split and the broad array of options from any given album. I don’t think they’d push back this hard on claiming.
#62
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@Shila
Shila, please refrain from posting in here while the game is going. Only participants and the mod should be posting in a game of Mafia.
#63
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Anyway, I’d like to post a set of reads after seeing how Pie responds to the current pressure and hopefully seeing more from Luna.

As for the point about Casey and I softclaiming, admittedly, I just responded with what felt right in the moment. I figured info about albums was relatively fair game to give up front considering the lack of a theme. I’m not convinced that the problem here is with claiming albums - from Austin’s description, it seems that claiming roles is the greater threat - but that’s ex post facto reasoning, I wasn’t thinking about that when I softed.
#64
ILikePie5
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Hi guys sorry, I have a horrible stomach bug so been sleeping and resting all day. Just remembered this game was a thing. Catching up now.
#65
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@AustinL0926
Hi, totally didn't forget about this :)

Some info which I think could be pretty useful: the OP mentions that there might be abilities that punish claiming. Cerulean is a Mafiauniverse player and setup designer and there's a pretty standard setup mechanic there called "anticlaim" which fits that description, which I'm familiar with due to playing on that website a lot.

Generally, the mafia team submits a post containing a claim, and depending on the setup and the degree of information (role info almost always counts for more than character or flavor info), the player who gets "anticlaimed" can be:

-rolecopped
-roleblocked (most common, usually for partial claims)
-killed (pretty common way to punish full claims)
-strongman killed (less common, usually in role madness games with lots of town protective roles)

So I would discourage claiming any info unless it's absolutely necessary. 

I don’t get this at all (maybe cause I’m dying right now). Can you explain this like I’m 5 years old.


#66
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@AustinL0926
actually nvm

VTL Pie

I remember him being a bit more eager to get things going as town, there was enough content at the time of his posts that I would've expected him to engage with GP's claim to some extent. Not a strong scumlean, but maybe something to get things going.
Check out my previous games lol. Plus I’ve been puking and shitting liquid all day so there’s that.
#67
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@AustinL0926
I like the mechanic as well. Makes it so people don't just treat claims like a get-out-of-jail free card, which is often the case in role madness setups (I think everyone has a role? It'd be weird to have people send in character submissions and not make a unique role for it).
Hate this post by Austin. Why speculate about roles?
#68
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@Mharman
I'm still scratching my head on why GP felt he needed to claim so bad. I know he does that a lot, but did he even read the OP?
It’s his meta. If anything it’s odd he hasn’t said his character. It’s why I banned him from my games and refused to play with him. I had hoped for better this game but guess not.

He did tag Pie; idt he normally tags someone when he does that. Could be a "hey, I did what you asked, boss."
It’s a play from when I was scum 3 games in a row lol

I know they're good friends and all but I don't get it.

Austin has a bit pf a point on Pie... but that's hard to say since we're all inactive.

I'd be down to press Pie for activity at least

VTL Pie
Fair enough ig
#69
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@Mharman
Pie was lagging behind in activity in Paper Mario Mafia as well. He flew under the radar all game and won as mafia.

We'll see. I expect something from him somewhat soon.
And I also caught Banana after being hella inactive in that one game. I forget the name. I’m genuinely sick 
#70
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@ILikePie5
Plus I’ve been puking and shitting liquid all day so there’s that.
Did we really need to know this part?

Unvote
#71
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@Mharman
Honestly I don't think scum were given fakeclaims. Everyone submitted their albums already- all scum needs to do is find a town role for the album they submitted.
There’s a million albums out there. Not that hard to craft a fake claim
#72
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@ILikePie5
And I also caught Banana after being hella inactive in that one game. I forget the name.
Fair.

There’s a million albums out there. Not that hard to craft a fake claim
Yeah that’s my point. No mod would need to give fake claims 
#73
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@Mharman
Did we really need to know this part?

Unvote
Just slightly annoyed
#74
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@ILikePie5
lol.

So, what makes Austin’s speculation suspicious? Looks normal to me.
#75
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@ILikePie5
Oh I see what you mean… I think. Are you saying Austin’s could be probing for PRs to take care of?

I don’t see how that could be the case though. I recall him telling people not to claim.
#76
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@Mharman
Oh I see what you mean… I think. Are you saying Austin’s could be probing for PRs to take care of?
It’s more like he’s baiting people into saying the game isn’t role madness, which would give away the fact that they’re Vanillas. Idk, the post just seemed off. Maybe I’m just being paranoid

I don’t see how that could be the case though. I recall him telling people not to claim.
You can not claim, yet imply what your role is. 
#77
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VTL Earth
#78
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@ILikePie5
Not a terrible take, but I do have a townie point in his favor.

At this point we gotta ask ourselves what mafia would be doing right now. There seems to be some small strategy discussions among town 

BRB. Thinking
#79
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@AustinL0926
GP's roleclaim reads as town, treestump is a difficult role to explicitly fake since pretty much any sign of having an active ability just outs you. If he is actually a treestump, then it's basically guaranteed to be town-aligned since there's no point of having a mafia treestump - after flipping scum, no one's going to listen to them.
Interesting point. Tbh, my first thought was that GP should be the lynch if we don't find a better option by the end of the DP. It's a role that can't be confirmed before death, and even if he dies, we still get active feedback from a confirmed townie.

Also, it's worth noting that I was a Tree Stump of sorts in Mayday Mafia, but to activate my Tree Stump status, I had to be flipless for the day. I assumed this was just so that I wouldn't be confirmed town while still able to talk, meaning I could still potentially be scum, though no one seemed to question my townie status at all. I think it's noteworthy that Austin seems to be overlooking this possibility.
#80
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@Mharman
I'm still scratching my head on why GP felt he needed to claim so bad. I know he does that a lot, but did he even read the OP?
He clearly didn't in the last game.

Honestly I don't think scum were given fakeclaims. Everyone submitted their albums already- all scum needs to do is find a town role for the album they submitted.
Yeah, mod-given fakeclaims make no sense in a game such as this one.
#81
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@Mharman
Plus I’ve been puking and shitting liquid all day so there’s that.
Did we really need to know this part?
My thoughts exactly. TMI, Pie.
#82
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@ILikePie5
It’s more like he’s baiting people into saying the game isn’t role madness, which would give away the fact that they’re Vanillas. Idk, the post just seemed off. Maybe I’m just being paranoid
Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but in context, I don't really read it that way. It made sense for Austin to bring up role madness when he did in the way that he did imo.
#83
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So far, I have no scumreads. The way both Mharman and Austin have been talking through their logic comes off as towny to me, though there's still that bit about Austin being quick to townread GP that I pointed out. I understand his reasoning, but Austin ignoring the possibility of GP being flipless while a stump does raise an eyebrow for me.

Wylted is probably town. Mostly just vibes/intuition here. Maybe I'm getting overconfident, but after the last game, I really do feel good about my ability to read Wylted. I'd still like to see more from him before I can solidify my townread, but I doubt he's scum at this point.

Null reads on basically everyone else. We're still only on page 3, so there's only so much I can say at this point.
#84
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Honestly I’m just gonna go to sleep.

I’ll leave yall with a question.

Do you think scum would be softing/claiming their album do gain towncred, or do you think they’d would be looking to avoid claims like the plague?

Actually here’s another question: Could mafia be unknowingly TMIing about the setup with how they behave?
#85
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@Mharman
Do you think scum would be softing/claiming their album do gain towncred, or do you think they’d would be looking to avoid claims like the plague?
Good question. Thinking back to Austin's UPick mafia, neither Pie nor I fakeclaimed our characters. I did get caught eventually, but my demise had nothing to do with my claim. In Lunatic's Villainous Villains, (why do I constantly find myself referencing that one game?) I remember that Owen faked his character, but I think his might have been one of the ones that was assigned by Lunatic as he hadn't chosen a villain himself -- Owen was Santa Clause. The other two scum players claimed their real characters iirc.

So I don't think scum would be trying hard to avoid claiming -- that just doesn't make sense to me. As for whether or not they'd be trying to softclaim early, that's a different matter. I'm not sure about that one, but I am sure that softing should give absolutely no towncred in this game. Fakeclaiming your character in a UPick-style game is easy as sin.
#86
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@whiteflame
Still, counter to that, strongest townread atm is Austin. Regardless of the broader mechanics involved (and Austin has a point about what they could be), scum have relatively easy fake claims to make given the lack of a theme split and the broad array of options from any given album. I don’t think they’d push back this hard on claiming.
Can you elaborate on this - are you saying that me pointing out potential anticlaim is towny because I wouldn't need to discourage claiming as scum? I suppose it's true, but seems a bit of a tangential point in regards to the rest of my posting.

#87
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@ILikePie5
I don’t get this at all (maybe cause I’m dying right now). Can you explain this like I’m 5 years old.
-Cerulean might be borrowing a mechanic that I've seen on Mafiauniverse (and elsewhere) called "anticlaim."
-Anticlaim is a setup mechanic designed to discourage town claiming in order to balance the setup.
-How it works is that the scum team can submit a post containing a claim to the mod each night, and if correct, then they can apply a penalty to that player. This penalty can range from kinda bad to very bad.

TLDR: be cautious of claiming. I doubt Cerulean would make this mechanic extremely powerful considering that this is a fairly new concept in DART and is likely to piss off players if they get killed for what would be acceptable mechanical play (i.e. just claiming your role) in any other DART setup, but you never know.
#88
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@ILikePie5
Hate this post by Austin. Why speculate about roles?
I'm not speculating about roles, I'm explaining how it's relevant to the setup. I don't expect or want people to talk too much about their roles both for regular reasons (leaking info benefits scum) and also for potential setup reasons.


#89
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Anyway, unvote because Pie said his activity is non alignment indicative. Solid null but gets a pass for today obviously, hope you feel better soon.
#90
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@Greyparrot
@Casey_Risk
Interesting point. Tbh, my first thought was that GP should be the lynch if we don't find a better option by the end of the DP. It's a role that can't be confirmed before death, and even if he dies, we still get active feedback from a confirmed townie.

Also, it's worth noting that I was a Tree Stump of sorts in Mayday Mafia, but to activate my Tree Stump status, I had to be flipless for the day. I assumed this was just so that I wouldn't be confirmed town while still able to talk, meaning I could still potentially be scum, though no one seemed to question my townie status at all. I think it's noteworthy that Austin seems to be overlooking this possibility.
I would prefer a GP lynch over a no lynch, but all else being equal I'd push for the scummiest player. I do agree that even if wrong, it would probably be the least damaging to town.

Uhh you're right that he might not flip. I forgot about that ngl, I have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to some things. Usually I've seen it with flip, I designed the role in Mayday Mafia that way specifically in order to fit thematically with all the other flip manipulating roles.

GP, can you confirm you still flip normally on death, even pre-treestump?