Paper Mario Mafia Chapter 1 (DP1)

Author: Earth

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WyIted
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I think cerulean should be on everyone's radar TBH as well. There is a scum tell that I am seeing, but I don't like mentioning it because it is one I know I fuck up with a lot. 

Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 

I'd also be willing to lynch him or her
ILikePie5
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Crying about muh WIFOM does not invalidate said argument. This is mafia, a game where town and mafia alike constantly make arguments about who's what, based on behavior, including arguments about what someone would or wouldn't do as scum. No one reasonable is gonna handwaive away an argument because WIFOM. If we all did, there'd be no arguments to have at all.
It’s more of do I believe your WIFOM or not. I frankly don’t because you’ve been partially CCed, and the odds are that you’re scum. If you’re scum, you’d make up any scenario that would benefit you, but at the end of the day, you’re still CCed.

Ah yes, I'm scum and under high pressure. I have a really good fake claim that Earth has given me and could use to get out of this situation, but nah, I'll let my scum partner use it instead. Then, let me claim cop, watcher, doctor all at once, because I have the room temp required to fake claim three of the most common town roles as mafia.
1) Earth may not have given a fake claim, so you yoloed into saying the most absurd thing possible

2) Earth did give you the fake claim and you used it

3) Your character and role is Bowser and JOAT but you are Mafia, and you guessed what roles town would/would not have.

4) Some combo of all of these.

In Ace Attorney Mafia, you were tunneling me, and one of your arguments is that you have a lot of respect for my scum play. Here, you seem to think my scum play is troglodyte level. Which is it?

Notice how you said I figured one or two of the roles I claimed were safe. You haven't even brought yourself to say I'd think all three were safe! But I'm sure you can gaslight yourself into actually believing that sooner or later, based on what I've seen so far.
The fact of the matter is that 2 full time roles with the same powers is broken and still a CC. Why is your vote not Lunatic?
Mharman
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The skill and ability of the player also kind of goes with the WIFOM though. I am more likely to believe you are capable of high level wifom for example than a noob or someone who just doesn't do it often.
Also, bro…

This is just a justification for a fear-based ad hom on players you think are good. 

gee, I wish I could say “youre a good player, so all your points are invalid because you could be a mastermind engaging in WIFOM” to hand waive away any points I don’t like. Would have saved me a lot of time refuting you
Mharman
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@Lunatic
Tag…
Mharman
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1) Earth may not have given a fake claim, so you yoloed into saying the most absurd thing possible
Earth literally confirmed scum was given a fake claim…

2) Earth did give you the fake claim and you used it
At which point you’d have to believe JOAT doc, watch, and cop was a fake claim given to me

3) Your character and role is Bowser and JOAT but you are Mafia, and you guessed what roles town would/would not have.
and so I guessed town wouldn’t have three of the most common roles in the entire game? Lol

Mharman
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@ILikePie5
I cannot remember to tag people today
whiteflame
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@ILikePie5
What were your reasons for voting Mharman (before he claimed)
I thought I was pretty clear in the post where I did it, as well as this one talking about his pressure on Cerulean.

That weak reasoning on Cerulean was the beginning of it, but his defense of it stood out to me as curious, with him saying that he would never behave this way as scum. I didn't love that he seemed to be dictating to us what his scum behavior would look like, especially since tunneling on a player or suggesting wild busses would not be new for scum. He was much more defensive than I thought was warranted based on limited sussing from Luna, especially since he hadn't had a vote on him up to that point. The shift to Barney near the end of that night set me on edge as well, it felt like an attempt to put pressure on an inactive player to defray pressure from himself rather than respond to Casey, who had cast a vote on him without response before this. Also, given how defensive he was, I wanted to see how he'd respond to new pressure. Suffice it to say his full claim was not the response I expected.




Mharman
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@WyIted
Just spit out whatever you’re reading. Unless you really think it’s gonna do THAT much harm… there’s no reason to conceal your thoughts on someone, even if no one really agrees with it
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
Getting the Star Rod have Bowser a ton of new abilities, and became near invincible because of it. You are free to look up the plot of Paper Mario in the Super Mario Wiki. I think Casey linked it on page 2
The bolded part makes your justification completely different. Why did you leave it out?
WyIted
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@Mharman
Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 

Mharman
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@whiteflame
I’ve explained everything else, but I wanna touch on this

suggesting wild busses would not be new for scum
I did not, at any point, suggest a wild bus was happening. I refuted a point about one that Lunatic made to Pie.
WyIted
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Maybe mharman and cerulean wanted to create distance immediately by behaving that way, thinking it would carry a town read on one of them through the game
Mharman
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@ILikePie5
I was just trying to get the role out quick to get it over with, so town could move on.

Apologies

ILikePie5
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@WyIted
I think cerulean should be on everyone's radar TBH as well. There is a scum tell that I am seeing, but I don't like mentioning it because it is one I know I fuck up with a lot. 

Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 

I'd also be willing to lynch him or her
Just say it. Every bit of information helps
WyIted
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Cerulean naturally was non committal towards the creating distance plan, given their more conservative style. 

Just spit balling here.
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
That was literally it. 

Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 
Scum tend to be conscious of how they are being observed so hesitate to change votes or to adapt their reads as quickly as a member of town does and cerulean is engaging in those scum habits
WyIted
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He kept his vote on mharman well after his concerns were addressed, got push back and now has a vote on me for an extended period and has not offered more than a single read at a time and has been inflexible with his reads
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
I can’t answer why backup isn’t a role. I will also state that you don’t know what the other town PRs are, or what scum has. 
I don’t. But Luna has one of yours as full time and both Ceru and Skipper have implied they’re power. That’s a lot, and as Casey pointed out, it’s not Earth’s MO to have that many power roles. There’s definitely scum.

Anyway, I know I’m not lying.

As for Bowser: 1. We are clearly all bosses from the Original Paper Mario. This has long been established. Earth has stated there is a theme split and that mafia has been given a fake claim. I’m willing to think that Earth gave them a fake claim because what they have as is not easily spun as town. Specifically, their characters… I’m thinking Mario and Peach are the scum characters. Could also be party members Mario can add to his team in Paper Mario

whiteflame
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@Mharman
I did not, at any point, suggest a wild bus was happening. I refuted a point about one that Lunatic made to Pie.
I apologize, as I believe I mixed up your posts in the process of re-reading this DP. Consider that portion of my reasoning null.

Mharman
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@ILikePie5
Skipper is in my pool. I’ve been thinking his supposed town slips were a little strange since the start

As for Cerulean, we don’t even if know if what he has competes with what I have

I wouldn’t mind a Skipper push.

VTL Skipper
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
Earth literally confirmed scum was given a fake claim…
Ya, I had a brain fart. Well let’s change that to you gave it your partner to use or holding off.

At which point you’d have to believe JOAT doc, watch, and cop was a fake claim given to me
Yep conceivable.

and so I guessed town wouldn’t have three of the most common roles in the entire game? Lol
You forgot my 4th one. Some combo of everything. Absurdity is an argument in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you’re not mafia appealing to the absurd.


ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
I thought I was pretty clear in the post where I did it, as well as this one talking about his pressure on Cerulean.

That weak reasoning on Cerulean was the beginning of it, but his defense of it stood out to me as curious, with him saying that he would never behave this way as scum. I didn't love that he seemed to be dictating to us what his scum behavior would look like, especially since tunneling on a player or suggesting wild busses would not be new for scum. He was much more defensive than I thought was warranted based on limited sussing from Luna, especially since he hadn't had a vote on him up to that point. The shift to Barney near the end of that night set me on edge as well, it felt like an attempt to put pressure on an inactive player to defray pressure from himself rather than respond to Casey, who had cast a vote on him without response before this. Also, given how defensive he was, I wanted to see how he'd respond to new pressure. Suffice it to say his full claim was not the response I expected
Fair
Lunatic
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@Mharman
I was going to write this more eloquently but fvck it and fvck you, if you want to act like a little victim I’ll play your game and be the asshole you are making me out to be. Yes I scum read you, yes I have my kind pretty much made up about it and. One of any of your victim playing bullsh1t is swaying me. You had all day to find me a better target and you wasted it whining and being a lil b1tch and you’ve used the victim card enough here that it’s stopped working. Boo fucking Hoo I scum read you. If you aren’t going to present a valid argument to my scum read and just whine about confirmation bias then I’ll just respond to you the same way you are responding to me.
Cerulean
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@ILikePie5
Whiteflame’s vote on Mharman right after Luna’s is very interesting 
This is a good shout. I've been rolling around an idea in my mind of at least one, possibly both scum, between WF and Lunatic. They both sort of jumped onto Mharman for the push on me.

VTL WF

I'm going to double-check, but it feels like WF has been... less, this game? Maybe it's IRL business causing issues, but it seems like he's been more of a background voice so far.

I wasn't much paying attention to the last game, so if anyone wants to chip in on whether he's resembling that, let me know.
Mharman
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What the hell?
Lunatic
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Response to 333 btw
WyIted
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It doesn't help that JOAT is one of the more common fake claims because you know it's not normally going to have a direct CC. If the fake claim was doctor, watcher and cop I would have literally just went with universal back up with a justification like

Bowser is universal back up, because he always has a back up plan and can be found in the next castle. 

It just feels like mharman went with a normal fake claim but was impulsive with it instead of giving it time
Cerulean
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@WyIted
Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 
This is a valid take, I suppose. I was thinking about where to go and didn't have a whole lot of time to go back and recheck Lunatic and WF.

Lunatic
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@WyIted
Quotes I agree with your pet 331 will give more details when I get to work
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@Cerulean
I don't see lunatic as scum. I don't doubt he has a good scum game, but not that good. He's earned my respect if he can fake the behavior he has shown this DP