Does Humanity Need A God Story?

Author: ethang5

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#121
Polytheist-Witch
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@Outplayz
My Christ vision would be called a dream by most but it wasn't. I would have wavered on that at the time but now I know better. I don't think every thing that happens when we sleep is dreaming per se. But whole different topic. 
#122
Outplayz
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@Polytheist-Witch
Me too. One of my experiences that i don't share bc it has too much personal stuff in it was basically dreams that warned me about something specific. The dreams were reoccurring over years and got more specific as the event neared. It was pretty insane, especially since they stopped as soon as the event passed. My personal take on it is that the "spiritual" reality can interact with your dreams. Most the time, your dreams are nothing... but, sometimes, i believe my higher self messages me through dreams. 

In your belief, what do you think happens to you in the afterlife? 

I ask bc you believe these gods are all true. Does that mean there is a heaven and there is also Valhalla? But in either case where do you go?
#123
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@Outplayz
In your belief, what do you think happens to you in the afterlife? I ask bc you believe these gods are all true. Does that mean there is a heaven and there is also Valhalla? But in either case where do you go?

It think it depends on your choices. I think Christians go to Heaven or Hell, unless I die in battle I would be looking at Helheim. Those that believe in reincarnation go right back. There are choices for those unaffiliated. I don't know specifics but I don't see why if the gods are there that their places to live in the afterlife are not. Hela, the goddess of the dead in Norse/Germanic myth, is willing to take in all dead. Some who work with her will tell you she takes Christians not allowed into Heaven which I would love to know more about. Perhaps that is Hell really, Just wondering loose in the universe. Obviously, spirits can still come to Earth and do stuff. In theosophy there is a great Akashic library you can go and read in. It contains all the past, present and future of all humanity. Imagine that if you are a reader or history buff. 
#124
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@Polytheist-Witch
Nice. Well... for me, i already know i will reincarnate into another mortal experience. But this time it will have magic and powers and be more exciting. That's for now however. I believe i will go where ever i am thinking of before i die. Could be a vampire reality, or if i am over that, a harry potter type reality... or something new i like before i die. To me, it all exists, so i basically see it as you do plus some extra's. I feel we are building our next character/reality everyday we are here. 
#125
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@Outplayz
Nice. Well... for me, i already know i will reincarnate into another mortal experience. But this time it will have magic and powers and be more exciting. That's for now however. I believe i will go where ever i am thinking of before i die. Could be a vampire reality, or if i am over that, a harry potter type reality... or something new i like before i die. To me, it all exists, so i basically see it as you do plus some extra's. I feel we are building our next character/reality everyday we are here.

Could be. I think this is why animism was around for a long time before gods. And why those "creatures" appear in shamanic travel. 
#126
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think this is why animism was around for a long time before gods. And why those "creatures" appear in shamanic travel. 
What do you mean by creatures? And why do you think animism was around before gods? 

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#127
ethang5
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@vagabond
Sorry, I don't feed trolls.

You just are one.
What you mean and have always meant is that you can't handle the information I supply and certainly can't answer any of my questions honestly. You just release your anger when the lies you tell are confronted by me and you simply can't respond. I feel sorry for you.

Stalking. Reported.

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#128
ethang5
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@Stronn
The weather does not need to be serene all the time, just serene within the memory of individuals. And there are many places like that.
My comment was to show that natural catastrophes did not cause god stories. God stories would have occurred anyway.
#129
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@ethang5
God stories preceded natural catastrophes. And the exist where the weather is always serene and kind.No other phenomena qualifies. We have god stories because there is a god.
Do we have monster stories because there are actually cyclops, dragons, or wolf men?  I imagine this is where the vagueness of the terms might (dubiously) be exploited. "Monster" can apply to a broad range of possible things... some imagined and some real.  The term "god" is no different and can refer to things imagined or real.  The fact that there are stories does not validate imagined gods...and for that matter, real things called "god" doesn't either. Validation comes with (precise definitions and) evidence.


There is no intrinsic human need for nonexistent things. If the human desire for god is genetic, then something in the environment caused that desire to develop. This is a fact of evolution.

Stories of god does not suggest a human desire for god as much as a human desire for answers.  I refer you back to my original post.


#130
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@Outplayz
I mean they all exist on other planes, like the gods . Shaman have seem them and transferred the knowledge 
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#131
ethang5
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@SkepticalOne
Do we have monster stories because there are actually cyclops, dragons, or wolf men?
No. But it helps if you read the thread.

Are monster stories universal to every culture across all time? No. Only the god story is that way.

God stories are universal, they are universal because cultures see the pattern in nature. There is the pattern in nature because there is actually a god.

Stories of god does not suggest a human desire for god as much as a human desire for answers.
And then every culture comes up withe same answer? Can coincidence account for that? Can chance?

Humans do want answers, and if god did not answer those questions, he would have been abandoned. The error of atheists is that they think the "answers" humankind is searching for are scientific answers.

Being materialists, they can conceive of no other answers.

#132
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh okay i see. Not only shamans... i think most of the fiction we imagine the author has lived... you know the rest of my belief. I asked you about the afterlife bc that is really all i care about when it comes to beliefs. It just happens the monotheistic versions of paradise happen to be what i would consider to be hell. That is why multiple planes is more appealing to me.  
#133
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@ethang5
Are monster stories universal to every culture across all time? No. Only the god story is that way.God stories are universal, they are universal because cultures see the pattern in nature. There is the pattern in nature because there is actually a god.
Monster stories are universal in the same way as god stories. There might be noises to suggest something dangerous is moving in the dark, but to extrapolate creatures never before seen is fear induced imaginings. I think god stories are very similar except fear AND awe of the world fuel the pattern solutions. 

Furthermore, monsters and gods are not the only possibilities. It could be there is something natural that fits the patterns or that the pattern itself is imagined.


Being materialists, they [atheists] can conceive of no other answers.
Conceiving of an answer isnt the problem. I can conceive of answers all day long. Its the lack of justification for those answers that makes them worthless...and so it goes with god stories.
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#134
ethang5
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@SkepticalOne
Monster stories are universal in the same way as god stories.
Only in your dreams. Many cultures do not have monster stories. They are certainly not universal.

Yes, monsters and gods aren't the only possibilities, which is part of the reason why it is so significant that everyone chose god.

Today, many cultures have incorporated facets of other cultures in their god stories, so I'm talking about original stories, not the mishmash we have now.
#135
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@ethang5
Many cultures do not have monster stories.
Could you give examples. I am not aware any exist.

Yes, monsters and gods aren't the only possibilities, which is part of the reason why it is so significant that everyone chose god.
Again, and I realize this is a point you dispute (through assertion), but "everyone" did not choose god. eg. Piraha Additionally, there are modern cultures in which god stories have little or no place. So, all cultures 'coming up with god stories' is wonky and not a stable foundation for the conclusion.

I know you would like to only consider original god stories, but you nor I know where the "original god story" ends and the mishmash begins. I'm not sure we even know where the original god stories begin! So, there will be no quarter given for 'original god stories' as opposed to god stories in general.

In addition to these stumbling blocks, every culture shares things we know to be harmful or detrimental. Rape, hatred, ignorance,... etc. All cultures sharing something does not make that thing desirable.

Tl;dr? 

Some humans creating god stories does not equate to a need for god much less the actual existence of a god. There are much better arguments for god.




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#136
ethang5
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@SkepticalOne
If you will not read my posts there will be no reason for me to respond to you. Let me correct you.

Many cultures do not have monster stories.

Could you give examples. I am not aware any exist.

Many African cultures, and Eskimo cultures did not develop monsters. Where do you get the idea that every culture had monster stories? Because they are so common in your culture?

Yes, monsters and gods aren't the only possibilities, which is part of the reason why it is so significant that everyone chose god.

Again, and I realize this is a point you dispute (through assertion), but "everyone" did not choose god. eg. Piraha

Even if I were to grant you the Piraha, one culture out of all that have existed would not bother my claim.

Additionally, there are modern cultures in which god stories have little or no place.

I don't think you're using the word "culture" correctly.

So, all cultures 'coming up with god stories' is wonky and not a stable foundation for the conclusion.

"Wonky" is a precise argument.

I know you would like to only consider original god stories, but you nor I know where the "original god story" ends and the mishmash begins. 

I do. For example, we know the story of a ressurection of a god man is not native to the Japanese. We have records of much of the history of these cultures.

I'm not sure we even know where the original god stories begin!

There is no "original" god story. Every culture had one.

So, there will be no quarter given for 'original god stories' as opposed to god stories in general.
I need no quarter given. You either accept truth or you don't. It's no skin off my nose.

In addition to these stumbling blocks, every culture shares things we know to be harmful or detrimental. Rape, hatred, ignorance,... etc.

So? Are you confused?

All cultures sharing something does not make that thing desirable.
No one has said it did. You are confused. Read slowly if that helps you.

Some humans creating god stories does not equate to a need for god much less the actual existence of a god.

Well, it's not some humans, it every culture.

There are much better arguments for god.

This is not an argument for god. But not to worry, I know the futility of getting an anti-theist off his "god does not exist" knee jerk.
#137
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"Monster" stories predate gods and religions by thousands of years, first appearing in cave drawings some 25,000 years ago. Every culture throughout history has various monster stories, which significantly shaped the culture over time.
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#138
ethang5
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@Beelzedad
No they don't.

First, you have to interpret cave drawing as "monsters" andvthenvassume these "monsters" were part of a cultural story. That my friend is pure guessing based an assumption.

I can see from your name why you would need monster stories to predate gods and religions, but that is just not true. The closest thing to a "monster" in some cultures would be a swiftly moving river or an active volcano.

Monsters came later.




#139
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@ethang5
If you're only capable of denial and ad homs, please don't bother to respond.
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#140
ethang5
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@Beelzedad
I will respond when I see fit.

Argumentation is not ad-hom. If you think you were insulted in my previous response, a debate site will be hard for you.

And disagreement is not "denial". This is debate, disagreements are par for the course. I agree with reasoned arguments, not just strongly held opinions.

If all you are looking for agreement and a safe space, please don't bother to respond.
#141
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@ethang5
Tantrums are also not intelligent responses. Grow up.
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#142
ethang5
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@Beelzedad
If you really think my reply was a tantrum, you are most likely a easily triggered progressive snowflake.

You made an unsubstantiated claim which I countered with logic. You then insulted me and demanded I agree with you or refrain from answering, and now you say I'm throwing a tantrum? Lol.

You can play your liberal "outraged" card, in the main time, your claim remains unsupported, and my objection to it untouched. You haven't a clue of what you're talking about, and fake outrage and insults will not hide that.
#143
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@ethang5
Such a pathetic little thing. LOL
#144
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@ethang5
Many African cultures, and Eskimo cultures did not develop monsters.

You really need to make sure of your facts before making such claims.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiqirn: "In Inuit mythology an ijiraq is a sort of shape shifter who kidnaps children and hides them away and abandons them..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijiraq_(mythology): "In Inuit mythology, Qiqirn is a large, bald dog spirit that terrifies the Inuit people."

#145
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@ethang5
You really need to grow up. Your immature tantrums and ad homs are not welcomed.

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#146
ethang5
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@vagabond
Such a pathetic little thing. LOL

Stalking. Insulting. Reported.

#147
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@vagabond
Such a pathetic little thing. LOL
Last warning, mate. Stop it already. There's bunch of other forums where you can and maybe even encouraged to insult the other participants but this one ain't one of those and there's no need to turn it into anything like them. 


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#148
ethang5
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You really need to make sure of your facts before making such claims.
And you need an education instead of wiki.

Did you even read your own link? None of these are original cultural stories of the Inuit people. This is 19th century inuit mythology.

Do you know today the Grinch turns up in some African mythology? Please.
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#149
ethang5
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@Beelzedad
You really need to grow up.
I'm older than you, and behaving more maturely than you. Maybe I'm not the one who needs to grow up.

Your immature tantrums and ad homs are not welcomed.
By who? You? Lol. Exactly how liberal are you?

Your claim remains unsupported, and my objection to it untouched. You haven't a clue of what you're talking about, and fake outrage and insults will not hide that. But keep trying. You can't debate, so what option do you have?

#150
Stronn
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@ethang5
And you need an education instead of wiki.

Did you even read your own link? None of these are original cultural stories of the Inuit people. This is 19th century inuit mythology.
Read the link again. It says the Qiqirn was referenced in a book the 19th century. It does not say that book is the origin of the myth. The myth itself is far older.

If that is not enough, here is a page that mentions some more monsters in Inuit mythology.


"Supernatural beings accompany many Inuit myths, including: Mahaha, a demon that terrorizes the Arctic and tickles its victims to death; Ijiraat, shapeshifters that may change into any arctic animal but may not disguise their red eyes; Taqriaqsuit, shadow people who are rarely seen but often heard; Qallupilluk (or Qalupalik, see below), scaly, human-like creatures that snatch children into the sea; Inupasugjuk, giants who capture humans; and Tuniit, who are seen as simple-minded but extremely strong ancestors of the Inuit."