Bo Burnham Mafia DP2

Author: Lunatic

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#61
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@Moozer325
@iamanabanana
Alright, so the whole confusion between "Gravedigger" and "Graverobber" from Owen feels very genuine to me, and given the existence of WF's role in this game, I can definitely see it being real.

I'm not exactly sure why Moozer thinks Hated is confirmable without killing him, unless voting for him will outright show that he requires one less vote before he even gets a majority -- Moozer, can you check if this is the case with Luna? In any case, I think it was pretty obvious that he was a 1x Double Voted, so no surprises there. Double Voter can be either alignment, but Hated leans town and behaviorally speaking, Moozer is town to me.

As for Vader, the late Vanilla claim is very convenient for him if he is mafia. Luna does often, thought not always, include just one Vanilla player in his games, but knowing that can also be helpful to scum if they can get away with not claiming early. I know that in the last Luna game, Pie was last to claim and claimed Vanilla when he was actually scum. Vanilla is always going to be a somewhat suspicious claim anyway.

With all that being said, however, while Vader is in my PoE, I think the last scum is either Banana or Pie. They've both claimed some sort of investigative role, and Mharman flipped as an informational role. Gramps is not really investigative per se, so it's not unthinkable that all three really could be in this game, but I'm not super comfortable with that thought either.

Between the two, I lean more towards Banana being scum. Pie was one of the ones actively pushing WF DP1, which is a good sign for him. Losing your partner in a 2v7 game during DP1 is just absolutely devastating. That being said, assuming Pie is scum, he would have known that WF was a Suicide Bomb/Super Saint, so he could have taken a really risky gamble in the hopes that we mislynch someone today and the game becomes MYLO tomorrow. It's not completely out of the question, but I do find it to be very unlikely.

Behaviorally speaking, I'm on the fence about Banana. Everything she has said or done that rubs me the wrong way could be plausibly explained by her just being a noob. Based on behavior alone, I'm not confident about her being mafia, but from my PoE, I think she's probably our best choice.

VTL Banana
#62
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@Vader
Not to mention not on the wagon for WF.
Did you... read all of DP1? I was the first person to vote for Whiteflame and was actively pushing him. I only Unvoted so that I could be the one to hammer him, but then Wylted stepped in and did it before I could. Why would I intentionally set myself up to be the one to hammer my Super Saint partner? That would literally lose us the game instantly.
#63
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@Casey_Risk
Banana, I would like to know why you targeted me specifically. 
It was between you and pie, I stated that I was suspicious of you a couple of times last day phase. Also I feel like people were letting you off the hook too easily for being on whiteflame, where we just had a game where austin and cerulean tried to frame each other. I probably should have targeted pie if I knew he was going to lie about his promise to claim the next day phase, like he repeatedly promised he would.


#64
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@Casey_Risk
Banana, I would like to know why you targeted me specifically. 
It was between you and pie, I stated that I was suspicious of you a couple of times last day phase. Also I feel like people were letting you off the hook too easily for being on whiteflame, where we just had a game where austin and cerulean tried to frame each other. I probably should have targeted pie if I knew he was going to lie about his promise to claim the next day phase, like he repeatedly promised he would.


#65
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@ILikePie5
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 I stated that I was suspicious of you a couple of times last day phase. Also I feel like people were letting you off the hook too easily for being on whiteflame, where we just had a game where austin and cerulean tried to frame each other.
I'd buy that argument more if Whiteflame was literally any other role than what he actually was. I wasn't just pushing him, but had actively positioned myself to be the one to hammer him. Again, why would I intentionally set myself up to be the one to hammer my Super Saint partner? That would literally lose us the game instantly.

I probably should have targeted pie if I knew he was going to lie about his promise to claim the next day phase, like he repeatedly promised he would.
Actually, that's a fair point. I don't like how Pie has refrained from fullclaiming. Everyone else has done it by this point.
#66
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VTL pie.

I think the last mafia is between him and casey, but I find it really suspicious that mharman died, and he was the only one putting real pressure on pie to claim, and as soon as we get into day phase 2 everyone just stops caring about the fact that pie said multiple times he would on day phase 2 and just hasn't.

If I get lynched that is okay, I am kind of over this game anyway after everyone was rude to me day phase one, but as long as pie gets lynched in the end I'll be somewhat happy with the result of this game. I am pretty sure he is mafia, and my instincts have proven to be pretty good so far, so if anything, take that away from my contribution so far. Pie is probably scum, if not him my second guess is casey. Pie is leading the town and everyone is intimidated by him so no one will pressure him for a claim. He's not that scary guys. Lynch him.
#67
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@Casey_Risk
I'd buy that argument more if Whiteflame was literally any other role than what he actually was. I wasn't just pushing him, but had actively positioned myself to be the one to hammer him. Again, why would I intentionally set myself up to be the one to hammer my Super Saint partner? That would literally lose us the game instantly.
It certainly looks good that you said you were willing to hammer him, but at the end of the day our doctor ended up being the one to actually do it. So I have a hard time giving you too much a pass on that.
#68
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@iamanabanana
It certainly looks good that you said you were willing to hammer him, but at the end of the day our doctor ended up being the one to actually do it. So I have a hard time giving you too much a pass on that.
I was literally about to hammer and had explicitly said I was going to do so, but Wylted swooped in and stole the opportunity from me.

Really, though, I want to hear your explanation as to why I'm likely scum. If I had followed through on my stated intentions to hammer WF, we both would have died and lost the game immediately. So, obviously I couldn't have followed through, but setting myself up to hammer only to not do so would only make me look incredibly suspicious. That goes beyond being a risky move into the realm of suicidal idiot territory. Do you really think that was my plan?
#69
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@Casey_Risk
I was literally about to hammer and had explicitly said I was going to do so, but Wylted swooped in and stole the opportunity from me.

Really, though, I want to hear your explanation as to why I'm likely scum. If I had followed through on my stated intentions to hammer WF, we both would have died and lost the game immediately. So, obviously I couldn't have followed through, but setting myself up to hammer only to not do so would only make me look incredibly suspicious. That goes beyond being a risky move into the realm of suicidal idiot territory. Do you really think that was my plan?
I don't presume to know what your plan was, all I can see is the consequences of what had actually happened. I am mostly suspicious of you to the fact that you and so many others think you should be confirmed, that seems a bit too good to be true to me. But I am mostly suspicious of pie, so I am mostly suggesting people look into you harder if for some reason pie isn't mafia.
#70
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@Casey_Risk
Actually, that's a fair point. I don't like how Pie has refrained from fullclaiming. Everyone else has done it by this point.
It’s Election Day. I don’t mind full claiming now. I am the Odd Night Cop. Already said my character: From God’s Perspective.

Justification is about how people don’t take time to appreciate the gifts given to them by the Earth, so every odd night I can pray to God (Lunatic) and ask for a player’s affiliation.

This is why I was giving Banana the benefit of the doubt. Reporter is relatively weak and I could see it existing with my role. When Mharman claimed to pesudo-CC Banana, it made me feel better Banana was scum. I targeted Banana yesterday, but as I said earlier, I was roleblocked.

It’s funny to me that Banana didn’t choose to target me considering she scumread me. I also think the JOAT theory is interesting. 
#71
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@iamanabanana
VTL pie.

I think the last mafia is between him and casey, but I find it really suspicious that mharman died, and he was the only one putting real pressure on pie to claim, and as soon as we get into day phase 2 everyone just stops caring about the fact that pie said multiple times he would on day phase 2 and just hasn't. 
I just claimed. 

If I get lynched that is okay, I am kind of over this game anyway after everyone was rude to me day phase one, but as long as pie gets lynched in the end I'll be somewhat happy with the result of this game.
Great, vote for yourself. Game over

I am pretty sure he is mafia, and my instincts have proven to be pretty good so far, so if anything, take that away from my contribution so far. Pie is probably scum, if not him my second guess is casey. Pie is leading the town and everyone is intimidated by him so no one will pressure him for a claim. He's not that scary guys. Lynch him.
I’m not leading town lol.
#72
ILikePie5
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I’m going to go reread DP1
#73
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Yeah you are getting blocked. I don't have time for little boys with small egos and even smaller.... Well we all know ;-)


#74
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His cop claim seems bogus too. Hope others will see the writing on the wall with this one. Why did he wait so long to claim if he was odd night anyway? Makes no sense.
#75
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His cop claim seems bogus too. Hope others will see the writing on the wall with this one. Why did he wait so long to claim if he was odd night anyway? Makes no sense.
#76
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@Moozer325
@Owen_T
Hmm... Not sure how to feel about that Cop claim. I'll repeat something I said in the last Luna game:

Cop is a bold claim, but remember what Lunatic said in the endgame thread for US Presidential Elections Mafia:

A cop is the single most powerful role a town can have. You are literally being told the affiliation of another player, and on np1 when the player pool is so large and mafia don't know who to roleblock, etc, imagine losing a whole ass mafia player because a player made a correct guess. I think cops should have many counters if they are included in a game. Usually if I put a cop in I either make them extremely counterable like casey did, or more likely just don't include them at all. I've seen cop results break games so quickly before. 
If Wylted saw that the scum team had nothing like a Lawyer, Godfather, etc., then it would be relatively safe to assume that there is no Cop given that Luna made this game.
Essentially, I view a Cop claim in a Luna game with a bit more suspicion than in an ordinary game. My role is one way that a Cop result could be incorrect. Assuming that Pie is telling the truth, there's also a scum RB'er. He's also limited to odd nights. Putting it all together, I think the claim is at least plausible.

I'd like to hear more from Moozer and Owen. They haven't given much in the way of reads this DP.
#77
ILikePie5
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Yeah you are getting blocked. I don't have time for little boys with small egos and even smaller.... Well we all know ;-)
Wow, I’m so hurt
#78
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His cop claim seems bogus too. Hope others will see the writing on the wall with this one. Why did he wait so long to claim if he was odd night anyway? Makes no sense. 
How is it “bogus.” 

If anything, your role is garbage. Never been used in a game before. 
#79
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@Casey_Risk
Essentially, I view a Cop claim in a Luna game with a bit more suspicion than in an ordinary game.
Ya I don’t blame you for that. But I softed the investigative claim in DP1. 

My role is one way that a Cop result could be incorrect. Assuming that Pie is telling the truth, there's also a scum RB'er. He's also limited to odd nights. Putting it all together, I think the claim is at least plausible.
Ya the odd night was a main reason why I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

I'd like to hear more from Moozer and Owen. They haven't given much in the way of reads this DP.
Owen is town. Moozer could be scum. Don’t know how “testing out” the hated claim would work. Frankly I’m annoyed that he didn’t SOP that.

If you’re scum, you’ve already won cause it’s a heavy/risky bus DP1. I don’t see WF doing that. 
#80
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@Owen_T
You need to ask Lunatic if the role you become is usable that same night. Like if you took on Wylted’s role tonight, would you be able to protect someone? Ask him that. Don’t tell any of us what Luna’s answer is
#81
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@ILikePie5
If anything, your role is garbage. Never been used in a game before. 
Eh, that's not exactly true. In Mayday Mafia, I had a 1x Reporter as one of my JOAT abilities. But if it really has never been used unflavored before on DART, then I agree that it's very sus. I also feel like the justification is a little bit weak, but that wouldn't be unique to her this game. I thought WF's justification was weak as well, but he was literally just telling the truth.

Looking at things from the standpoint of "What do Whiteflame's DP1 actions suggest his partner is?" I think you're very unlikely to be scum. You were on his wagon, and that would have been a very risky bus. Banana is likely -- I've already mentioned WF throwing some sus on Banana but not voting for her. Vader is a possibility as well; WF said practically nothing about him.
#82
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@Casey_Risk
Looking at things from the standpoint of "What do Whiteflame's DP1 actions suggest his partner is?" I think you're very unlikely to be scum. You were on his wagon, and that would have been a very risky bus. Banana is likely -- I've already mentioned WF throwing some sus on Banana but not voting for her. Vader is a possibility as well; WF said practically nothing about him.
Yep, it’s in Banana, Vader, Moozer for sure. It’s Election Day so gonna be busy tonight but I’ll try to read DP1 to see if I find anything 
#83
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@Lunatic
I assumed that the vote count would show me as needing one less to lynch, but either way could someone just VTL me right now to check?

Anyways, I’m using my ability Luna.

VTL Pie

VTL Owen

Just picked two random people

#84
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@Moozer325
Just picked two random people
Why? What are your reads?
#85
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I didn’t have much time to get into it, but I have more time now.

Keep in mind, I haven’t read the DP yet, so this will probably change when I see the claims, but the Pie/Banana thing could still go either way for me even though I lean towards banana as town.

More in about an hour when I get around to reading stuff.
#86
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Also, can someone please just VTL me so we can test my hated townie thing?
#87
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@Moozer325
Also, can someone please just VTL me so we can test my hated townie thing?
Reread your PM dude.
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#88
Lunatic
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"I wouldn't have got the lettuce if I knew it wouldn't fit, wouldn't have got the cheese if I knew it wouldn't fit, wouldn't have got half of this like... I'm okay with small mistakes, if you got no more chicken I'll take pork... But I'll blow my dad before I eat a burrito with a fork!"

Pie- 2/4- Banana, Moozer
Banana- 1/4- Casey
Owen- 1/4- Moozer
#89
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Okay, sorry for that. Hated townie will not show up on the vote count. My bad.
#90
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I am going to reread the DP when I'm home