trump supporters - do you acknowledge that trump has a cult based on personality?

Author: n8nrgim

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#31
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
It was more important to defend law and order and democracy.
By lining up behind a convicted felon who’s facing indictments in 3 other jurisdictions and where the evidence against him in all three is overwhelming, and where two of those indictments are for his attempts to subvert American democracy…
You have failed in every case to establish and maintain the objective legitimacy of the lawfare against Trump and his supporters.

That is why we had to vote for him and no other. It was in game theory parlance a "forced move". You want to crucify Joe Schmo over lies, we can't let you. If we let you do that then the threat of being railroaded would loom over every candidate, journalist, commenter, and even voter along the way to total digital police state.


You may as well say there was a cult of personality around Rosa Parks. All those people suffering so one woman can sit where she wants on a bus? It's intentional obtuseness. They weren't suffering for the convenience of one woman and we aren't suffering for the ego of one man.
#32
DavidAZZ
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Of course Trump has a "cultish" base.  EVERY popular person does.  Look at celebrities.  Taylor Swift has "Swifties".  It is impossible to not have a crazed group of people that turn you into their God if you influence them.

I'd say you have a moot point here and that you are stating the obvious.
#33
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Is this the argument you’re making? Really?

I’m unsure whether you mean “crucified because he lied” or “crucified because someone lied about him”, so I’ll tackle this from both angles:

If you meant the former, Trump lied in an illegal way. It’s that simple. You can lie about what you had for breakfast, but there’s a scaling to the punishment, right?

If you meant the latter, do you genuinely believe that he would delay the case this long if he was innocent? He has been stalling and stalling, and I find it hard to believe that he’d do that if he was truly innocent. Eventually you’ll get enough proof to change your mind, I hope. Or maybe you’ll die thinking he was innocent, I don’t understand cult think.

Finally, why compare prison time to crucifixion? I thought republicans were chill with the prison-industrial complex. If you can get time for possession, I don’t think it’s fair to let Trump off the hook, and capital punishment isn’t even necessary.
#34
ADreamOfLiberty
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@borz_kriffle
If you meant the former, Trump lied in an illegal way.
Oh well if you say so it must be true.


If you meant the latter, do you genuinely believe that he would delay the case this long if he was innocent?
There is more than one trumped up case, and if you're talking about delay tactics from his lawyers I genuinely think lawyers will do whatever they feel will serve their clients interest. When the problem is kangaroo courts convened to disrupt democracy there is every reason to think their position will be much better after there is no election to subvert as a motivation.


He has been stalling and stalling, and I find it hard to believe that he’d do that if he was truly innocent.
I find it impossible to care about what you find hard to believe. Do you plan on making an argument or are you just letting the world know how you feel?


Eventually you’ll get enough proof to change your mind, I hope. Or maybe you’ll die thinking he was innocent,
Don't hold your breath.


I don’t understand cult think.
Missing the forest for the trees.


Finally, why compare prison time to crucifixion?
The point of comparison is more along the lines of the deep need of a tyrannical authority to send a message of fear.


I thought republicans were chill with the prison-industrial complex.
You seem to think a lot of things, but if you don't give reasons what are you doing on this site?


If you can get time for possession, I don’t think it’s fair to let Trump off the hook
Possession of what? Illegal narcotics? Like Hunter Biden has been proven to have possessed?

The lawfare is way way past "unfair", auditing Trump because he's opposing a democrat is unfair. What I have seen has firmly been in "treason against the constitution" territory for months.
#35
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I tried to talk to you like a human, because I’m sure that you won’t accept any of the current evidence as even a little incriminating. The fact of the matter is, you “think” he’s innocent, just like I think he’s guilty. Certainly I have taken the far more reasonable stance given his past and the present actions of his legal team, but there’s always a chance I’m wrong, so I hesitate to say that I know anything quite yet.

Oh and by the way, I don’t think the current prison system is moral and I certainly don’t believe that drugs should be illegal to possess or use. Just wanted to appeal to your hatred of drug users, which, by the way, Trump most certainly is/was. Businessmen back then weren’t typically angels.
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#36
n8nrgim
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@DavidAZZ
The real question is would trump be where he is without his cult? Is the substance of trump sufficient to justify his status with no cult appeal?
#37
ADreamOfLiberty
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@borz_kriffle
I tried to talk to you like a human
How rude, I identify as an endangered snail.


because I’m sure that you won’t accept any of the current evidence as even a little incriminating
Well that's sorted out then. How about this, you pick a so called crime, and I'll go find where Double R tried his best, and if you think you can do better than Double R you can give it a shot.


The fact of the matter is, you “think” he’s innocent
As innocent as real estate moguls  and citizens in a country buried under a mountain of unjust laws get.... yea.


so I hesitate to say that I know anything quite yet.
If you're looking for a pat on the back, keep looking. I give zero credit for being confident and zero for being doubtful, or self-deprecating, or humble, or proud.

Ultimately all that matters is the logic and the evidence. That's what debate is for. This isn't a negotiation. We're both just wasting time with wit and you can quit anytime you want doesn't bother me.


Oh and by the way, I don’t think the current prison system is moral and I certainly don’t believe that drugs should be illegal to possess or use.
Those two statements are tips of very complicated icebergs, but if you want to talk about those complicated details I might be interested.


Just wanted to appeal to your hatred of drug users
It's not helping that you're admitting to attempted fallacies. If you had ever spent time around someone really addicted to drugs you would find it hard not to hate them too.

I hold three things to be true at the same time:
1.) Using force against people "for their own good" is immoral.
2.) There are drugs that absolutely destroy the life of most people who try them.
3.) There are drugs that absolutely destroy not only the life of most people who try them, but also other people's lives by making them destitute violent desperate unpredictable vagrants.

There are people and attitudes I hate, but "drug users" in general is not one of them. I am at this very moment addicted to the stimulant called caffeine.


which, by the way, Trump most certainly is/was. Businessmen back then weren’t typically angels.
1.) I doubt your sources
2.) I don't care morally or practically what drugs Trump may have experimented with. If he's not on them anymore he's clearly not addicted, and it clearly didn't prevent him from keeping a roof over his head nor did he crash into people with heavy machinery.

#38
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You have failed in every case to establish and maintain the objective legitimacy of the lawfare against Trump
Says the guy why thinks calling the FBI and letting them know you just found a dozen or so classified documents that they should come and take is the same as hiding box loads of classified documents from the FBI after repeatedly lying to them saying you never had them when you know you did… are the same.

My inability to convince you says way more about you than it does about me.
#39
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@Double_R
My inability to convince you says way more about you than it does about me.
The way you keep trying to gaslight and the fact that I keep giving you another chance to be reasonable says plenty about us both.
#40
WyIted
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This whole cult of personality thing is just leftist hopium.  They hope that once Trump serves his second term they can get back to one party control. Have it be identical Bush Clinton types forever. 

MAGA is a movement and it's not going anywhere and if anything Trump us holding it back. We'll see who leads MAGA next. My bet is on Vivek Ramaswamy. 
#41
Greyparrot
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@WyIted
Yeah, it's going to get a lot worse for the establishment conservative party of Kamala. MAGA progressives will progress out of this fascist dystopia of elites and toward freedom and liberty for all.
#42
Best.Korea
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@Greyparrot
MAGA progressives will progress out of this fascist dystopia of elites and toward freedom and liberty for all.
I cant tell if thats sarcasm.

#43
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The way you keep trying to gaslight
Biden found about a dozen classified documents, alerted the FBI and told them to come get them.

Trump removed box loads of documents, was told to return them, lied saying he didn’t have them, and continued to hide them until a search warrant had to be issued.

And you think these are the same.

It’s not gaslighting, it’s pure facts.
#44
Double_R
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@WyIted
MAGA is a movement and it's not going anywhere and if anything Trump us holding it back. We'll see who leads MAGA next. My bet is on Vivek Ramaswamy. 
MAGA will not survive without Trump. It only exists because of Trump’s brazen lies which no other politician can get away with. When someone else tries it people see right through it, that’s why Trump’s handpicked candidates keep losing races the republicans should have easily one, Mark Robinson being the next example.
#45
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
You're absolutely delusional if you think MAGA will just let the authoritative deep state keep taking freedom and prosperity away from them without a fight  just because Trump is gone. Especially after the orangemanbad cult (your cult) dissolves. Then MAGA will have fresh allies.
#46
FLRW
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Remember that Trump says he loves Kim Jong-Un.
#47
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@WyIted
and if anything Trump us holding it back.
He is. The best thing that can ever happen for MAGA is for the next bullet to hit home. That would be the end of the gaslight uniparty and the beginning of liberty and freedom.

#48
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Greyparrot
That would be the end of the gaslight uniparty and the beginning of liberty and freedom.
Well there would be a lot of blood inbetween...


#49
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R

It’s not gaslighting, it’s pure facts.
Mostly accusations, and even facts without context can be used to create a false narrative.



"Adolf Hitler was a painter who loved his dog. He had a family, children, a wife. He improved infrastructure of his nation. Still, millions of people wanted to kill him."

Pure facts, but still gaslighting.
#50
Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The most effective gaslighting is pure facts brewed with censorship, edits, and creative embellishment. 
#51
WyIted
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@FLRW
Remember that Trump says he loves Kim Jong-Un.
This is the most retarded dhit you guys say, because you are too stupid to understand diplomacy
#52
WyIted
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@Double_R
MAGA will not survive without Trump. It only exists because of Trump’s brazen lies
Don't say this when every single media outlet yesterday reported that Trump called for Liz Cheney to be in front of a firing squad
#53
ADreamOfLiberty
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@WyIted
I see what you did there, clever :)
#54
Mall
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@n8nrgim
A lot of folks do.
#55
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
You're absolutely delusional if you think MAGA will just let the authoritative deep state keep taking freedom and prosperity away from them
Id be delusional if I thought the MAGA cult would ever accept that their conspiracy world view is not real. Fortunately that’s only a portion of one side, the rest along with the left are out here in real life sorting through real world problems.
#56
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It’s not gaslighting, it’s pure facts.
Mostly accusations
Supported with clear evidence, and most of which Trump is not even contesting. His defense is that he had a right to those documents. When you need to come up with your own defense instead of being able to accept his that should make you think, but it won’t.
#57
Double_R
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@WyIted
Remember that Trump says he loves Kim Jong-Un.
This is the most retarded dhit you guys say, because you are too stupid to understand diplomacy
Ah, so saying you fell in love with the guy developing nuclear warheads is a diplomatic way to stop him from developing nuclear weapons. Genius!

I can’t wait to hear the update on how well that worked out.
#58
WyIted
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@Double_R
 Would you be more open to make concessions to somebody calling you the axis of evil or to somebody saying you are a great person?
#59
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
It’s not gaslighting, it’s pure facts.
Mostly accusations
Supported with clear evidence
Don't believe you.


and most of which Trump is not even contesting.
Trump still fails to deny he has a house and breathes air huh? Your notion of relevance requires a cult indoctrinated derangement to understand.


His defense is that he had a right to those documents.
I know, but what makes you a hypocrite is that your theory is that he didn't have a right to those documents and yet you refuse to admit the implications of this "law" for anyone else (in history or present).
#60
DavidAZZ
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@n8nrgim
The real question is would trump be where he is without his cult? Is the substance of trump sufficient to justify his status with no cult appeal?
I think this question is a "which came first the chicken or the egg" (I know it is referring to creation or evolution) in which "did one create the other?".  The reason Donald Trump was able to gain momentum is because he struck a chord with a large percentage of the American people.  Trump is not the reason for the MAGA movement, but a catalyst.  People hang on to him because he is the face of the MAGA movement and his survival is crucial at this point.  The MAGA movement was already in the minds of the people, Trump has given it flight with his inability to play by the rules of a typical politician.  He is seen as the face of the movement only because he speaks in vein hat the American people want to hear.  A Hero, if you will, to the people, not the answer.

If he were running as a Democrat and spoke like Kamala Harris or Biden, his popularity would not be there on the conservative side.  We don't like liberal views or ways and since he was running off of "draining the swamp" and he term was great until COVID, I would say he is still the face of the MAGA movement.

Once he fails, quits or resigns, he is out and another will come to take his place.  MAGA is a movement, not a person.  The "cult of Donald Trump" as you say will move to another when Trump is no longer around.